A FORUM ON “THE DESTRUCTION OF BLACK CIVILIZATION”BY CHANCELLOR WILLIAMS ON MELANET.COM

by

FROM melanet.com

“The Destruction of Black Civilization” BY: Chancellor Williams—This is the FIRST book EVERYONE should read conscerning black history!!!

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MELANET UnCut Chat and Discussion: When Black Men Ruled The World (On Africentrism): “The Destruction of Black Civilization” BY: Chancellor Williams—This is the FIRST book EVERYONE should read conscerning black history!!!
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By MartinCruse on Friday, March 10, 2000 – 04:31 am:
This is the definitive book to read if you want to
know the truth about black history!!

yeah yeah i know you have heard that before but
take my word for it this time trust me. I thought
I knew pretty much everthing (or at least the jist
of it) about black history till i read this!!

I know alot about our history but their were still
unanswered questions that most black history books
were not addressing. I’ve found them in this book.

This book contains all the information Henry Louis
Gates Jr. didn’t have the courage to say in his
Eurocentic black history tv series that was on
television!!! Many afrocentric scholars demanded
that they show and “honest” version of black
history instead of the farce that Gates displaid
for the world to see.

FOR EXAMPLE:

1. We know that the Egyptians were not caucasion
or “white”…thats been established. But were
they….ARAB? Thats what the people look like
there now anyways. So they weren’t white or black
but ARAB. But the Arabs invaded Africa just like
the Europeans did didn’t they.
Arabs even started the invasion (i think) and
were MAJOR holders in the intercontinental slave
trade weren’t they!?!?!

Hmmmmmm……

2. There is a huge dessert that currently
separates North and South Africa. Its called the
Sahara. Eurocentric scholars have used the desert
as a means of saying that the Egyptians were a
separate people and culture from the rest of
Africa. “Sub-Saharan” is the term that they use i
believe.

But evidence has been found that the Sahara was
once rich with plant life and water making it
perfectly inhabitable for people to inhabit it.
And by doing so connecting the imaginary barrier
between Egypt and the rest of Africa.

So was the Sahara ALWAYS a desert? And how did it
become a desert in the first place?…

hmmmmmmm…..

All these questions and more are answered in this
book

WRITE DOWN THIS ISBN NUMBER AND TAKE IT TO YOUR
NEAREST BOOKSTORE: 0 883 780 305

“The Destruction of Black Civilization”= by:
Chancellor Williams

and once again, the ISBN number: 0 883 780 305

Write the number down and give it to them. It’ll
make it easier to find the book

Knowledge is Power!!!!!!
Martin

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By White Boy on Thursday, March 16, 2000 – 09:55 am:
Afrocentrism is a joke!

Black africans haven’t established ONE advanced civilization on their own. Egyptians are NOT black, they are more Arab than anything so blacks cannot take credit for that civilization either.

Let’s face it Blacks are infirior to all other races. How? Well simply put, Black Africans are the only race that cannot succeed in Ameria on their own. Even with Affirmative Action, Africans struggle to succeed in a country where all other races have been tremendously prosperous.

Anyone who supports Afrocentrism is a fool. You need to realize that Africans should stop their complaining and start adopting Western ideals in order to succeed in this world. If you do not, blacks will just be what they always have been: poor and under developed

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By MartinCruse on Thursday, March 16, 2000 – 01:16 pm:
OOOOOO HERE WE GO AGAIN WITH THE LIES.

First of all, africans are divided and suffering so much today because we were colonized by Europeans and Arabs. And to colonize Africans used and old techinque of…

DIVIDE AND CONQUER!!!! When we are fighting amongst ourselves we are not focussing on the real problem…Europeans with their Christianity and Arabs with their Islam.

We have created no civilizations huh? lol yeah they tried to feed me that crap in history class also. Just because Arabs are there now doesn’t mean they always have been. The Arabs invaded Egypt just like the greeks/romans did. They also participated in the slave trade. So all in all they are just as hippocritical as Europeans are concerning black history.

All of the Greek classicists describe them as black (herodutus, aristotle, ect., ect.) But all this has been said before…..”whiteboy.” Its getting repetitive now. If you have any doubts….look at the sphinx. Look at the brrrrooooaaaad nose and lick long lips it has. Even though they were shot off u can still make out its “africoid” facial features.

And have u actually read any of the afrocentric books? Or are you just making blind ignorant statements to suit your own greedy needs?

And p.s. everthing in the west originated in the EAST!!! Western civilizations is built on lies and deciet and GREED!

But we all know this already…

So now that you have been corrected….go by the CLEGG SERIES video, crawl back into the ignorant/ destructive/capitalist/backstabbing/European lies filled hole you came from and shut up
CAUSE GROWN FOLKS ARE TALKING!

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By ignore_the_devil on Thursday, March 16, 2000 – 01:30 pm:
Peace, be still, brothers and sisters, do not let the devil get the best of you. “It” is inciting you to a riot. Peace, be still!

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By ruff on Thursday, March 16, 2000 – 01:50 pm:
infirior?…no spell check on webtv,huh whitebread?

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By White Boy on Friday, March 17, 2000 – 10:41 am:
Gee sorry RUFF I don’t have spell checking. Apparently you don’t either. Isn’t it supposed to be rough?

It is simple to answer all those points you made.

The greeks could easily misake an Arab and say he or she was black. Look at arabs for goodness sake, some of them are so dark they are blacker than some blacks. So no problem there.

And sorry I disagree with you on the Sphinx it doens’t look negroid to me. But maybe I’m wrong, I’ll admit I didn’t see who built the thing. If you can prove to me that blacks built it, then I’d agree with you. But the fact remains that NOBODY can really say who built the sphinx, and I’d have an easier time believing it was built by aliens.

And ha ha I guess the black race is so honest and upright? You never get greedy or lie? You have never destroyed another tribe or made war on them back in your days in Africa? And I guess I’m so corrected now that I’ll just crawl away back to my slimey mud hole right? HA HA HA HA!!!

If you think Africa was so great, then get out of my counrty and go back to your sick, poor, AIDS infested, anarchy ridden, Africa?

White Boy

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By Edward Parker on Saturday, March 18, 2000 – 10:03 am:
Their is evidence allover this planet that original man or homo sapien sapien was the black man.. In la Venta Mexico with statues negroid stoneheads,with black Buddha with thick lips in India,china etc..Grimaldi who roam ed Europe for 40,000yrs BC,Tua man in north america,the egyptian black god Osirus…Chang dynasty which consisted of the black dwarf from interior Akebulan…I need not continue for those of any intellectual capacity know the truth..and the truth will set you free!!!!!

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By MartinCruse on Wednesday, March 22, 2000 – 02:55 am:
No i think u need to prove to ME that they were
anything other than black.

But yes i admit…Europeans aren’t the only ones
that lie. But you guys seem to have turned it into
an art form. Your the ones who invented the
political weapon of Misiformation. Your the ones
who got the ball rolling on the destruction of the
environment. YOUR the ones who have colonized the
WORLD with your own narrowminded beliefs and
religions. But i digress…your are right….a
liar is a liar…no matter how often he does or
does not commit a lie. But the balance definitely
leans toward Europeans thats for sure. Hell you
own like 70% percent of the world’s currency. You
don’t get that kinda cheese with hard work and
honesty NO WAY!!! That power was achieved through
manipulation and deciet.

Most proof of black Egypt comes from Greeks/romans
and even the pharoahs who were alive at the time.
I find it fitting irony that the alot of the proof
comes from White peoples’ ancestors themselves
lol. They describe them as dark skinned with flat
noses, full lips, and kinky hair like sheeps
wool!!! SHEEPS WOOL!!!! Get some sheeps wool and
think about whose hair it most represents.

There are also quotes from the pharoahs
themselves. You would have to know a little bit
of the history to put this one together though.
There is another all black civilization called
Nubia that lies south of Egypt. Afrocentric
scholars have always claimed that the Egyptians
were immigrants from Nubia. This is proven by the
fact that The Egyptians THEMSELVES describe
Nubia/the south as their place of origin. They
frequently went to the nubians for supplies or
assistance in whatever. Today, because of violent
sand storms…there is a dessert separating nubia
and Egypt. It is called the Saharah. So in order
to discredit Africans of our classical
civilizations so they can justify
slavery/colonialism….Racist Egyptologist
invented the term “Sub-Saharan” Africa. In other
words….all the niggers are down south while the
civilized white/arab Egyptians lie up north. The
Sahara was not always a dessert. This has been
proven. Egyptoligist are finding out that Egypt
maybe even older than they originally thought.
They found water erosion on the Sphinx!!! That
means There could have been connection between
north and South if that kind of drastic weather
changes happened (i.e. floods, SANDSTORMS, ect.
ect. ect.)!!!
But i Imagine all the hard proof in the world will
not change a mind that wants to justify its hate.

BUT YOU CAN READ ALL ABOUT IT HERE:

http
://www.he.net/~skyeagle/afro1.htm

go to the “Greek Quotes” section..very interesting

Arabs…even the darkest of them, (who are
considered blacks anyway by lighter skinned Arabs
ironically) have straitened hair like Europeans.
So yes they WOULD be able to tell the difference.
Arabs invaded Egypt many, many, centuries later in
the history of Kemet (Egypt).
And not all blacks have those fleshy facial
features either. Our variatioins seem almost
endless….after all…Blacks are the first
hue-ma

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By Soulbrother on Wednesday, March 22, 2000 – 11:49 am:
All of these beautiful, accurate, fact-filled, historical words, wasted on a poor, ignorant, racist White Boy, who would not see the truth if it hit him/her/it like a brick, in the face …..

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By perfect on Wednesday, March 22, 2000 – 05:09 pm:
Not wasted at all soulbrother I was reading all of this and I have learned from it.

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By hiplashone on Friday, March 24, 2000 – 11:37 pm:
Oh no ,not at all wasted!
I am printing all of this knowledge, and I am making copies and giving them to my neighbors, family and friends. And guess what~~~~can’t nobody stop me. So to all dropping knowledge;KEEP KEEPING ON! Soon every Black boy and girl will know about the Afrocentric experience and thier traditions, as long as you all keep posting, I’m going to keep printing it and telling the people I know, for that domino affect. Thanks.

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By Jerrold ( – 151.200.108.30) on Friday, March 24, 2000 – 04:34 pm:
Thanks, HipLaShone. That’s a beautiful way of spreading the word, about how Black people need to be knowledgeable and proud of who we are.

Keep on keeping on. Thanks again.

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By somosunafamilia ( – 129.81.185.75) on Friday, March 24, 2000 – 09:02 pm:
We seem to have forgotten the original post.
The Destruction of Black Civilization is probably the best book that I’ve been exposed to.
It was told to me that people know what they are against but they don’t know what they are for.
I said that to say don’t entertain the european too much, for it is a waste of time. Find out what you are for and move on it. And right now we should be for reading the Destruction of Black Civilization, then come with some of that good planning that is in there.

“Two birds fought over a kernel and a third flew away with it.”

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By Kegimni ( – 64.82.98.1) on Monday, May 29, 2000 – 12:36 am:
I’d like to add my two cents. To understand White Boy’s psyche, you must read a book by Michael Bradley called “Iceman Inheritance”. It speaks volumes of the inherent aggressiveness white men have toward women and others who do not resemble them. Rember brothers and sisters in order for you to educate you must know thyself and thy enemy.

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By JAB ( – 138.26.16.161) on Tuesday, June 13, 2000 – 05:15 pm:
The Destruction of Black Civilization was required reading for a history class I took in college. The Black professor told me that he never had so many (white) students angry with him. This book, along with the Bible which was used as a historical reference, proved that beyond a doubt that Blacks had produced one of the greatest cultures in Egypt along w/ other great civilizations such as Nubia,Babylon,Ethiopia,and India)and w/o the assistance of Europeans or Arabs.

By greg ( – 24.132.81.212) on Monday, June 19, 2000 – 10:57 am:
PEACE AND LOVE TO ALL BROTHERS AND SISTERS FROM ME TO YOU

AND TO JAB YOU ARE TOTALLY RIGHT IF YOU TELL THESE WHITES THE TRUE HISTORY THEY DIE AND IMMEDIATLY START IGNORING THE FACTS

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By Bryan Harman ( – 155.31.19.175) on Monday, June 19, 2000 – 05:06 pm:
It is such a shame that the world’s most primitive

people are taking credit for Ancient Egypt.Some afrocentrists have claimed the Greeks called the Egyptians black.As a educated person I this is misleading in the extreme.For example,Greek writers such as Manilius,Arrian,Ammianus Marcelinus,Strabo,and Flavius Philostratus all described the Ancient Egyptians as either “mildly” dark or “somewhat” dark, but never as black.Did Herodotus say the Ancient Egyptians were black?No! Herodotus was trying to find out where a people called the Colchians came from. The Egyptians said to Herodotus that the Colchians came from Pharaoh Sesostris’s army.Herodotus believed this because the Colchians were black skinned and woolly haired.For starters,Herodotus makes no claim that all of the Egyptians had these features and secondly black Nubian mercenaries served in the Egyptian army which would include Pharaoh Sesostris’s army.Last of all Herodotus would be contradicted by all these other writers I have listed.I would like to conclude by making fun of the fact that slavery,Sexual mutilation of women,tribalism,voodoo,and massive illiteracy exist on the world’s most primitive continent known as Africa.All of this while whites can walk on the moon,or celebrate all our other great accomplishments which are impossible for the primitive negro who is considered the world’s most inferior race.

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By foreversearching ( – 204.196.86.112) on Monday, June 26, 2000 – 10:48 am:
Peace Brothas and Sistas

1. Without getting into a long drawn out story of why i let christianity and islam go, which i feel everyone here understands, could someone suggest a few great books on African centered spirituality by us for us.

2. Will uh sista or brotha refer me to a few great sites on “ebonics”.

p.s. i will start reading the Destruction of Black Civilization in uh week.
thanks and peace

foreversearching

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By DJ ( – 63.27.97.209) on Saturday, July 22, 2000 – 10:23 pm:
I appreciate everyones messages. Even the ones from the white people. Their comments help reafirm what I’ve always believed to be true. Think about it, everyone in the Americas are a collection of people from the East (I guess with the exception of Indians, but I don’t know much about that). And everyone in the Americas tend to have their own history except for the decendents of African people living in America. An easy way to control “free slaves” and all of their offspring including grandchildren’s grandchildren (everyone) is through their mind. If they take what we made and claim it as their own and take us away from our origin and our true history and only feed us lies, if we believe it, we then become brainwashed and although we’re considered to be free we are still mind slaves until we are able to break that cycle as a whole. We have to stop automatically believing in everything we hear because the truth exists in us all. I didn’t figure any of this out by reading a book I did it by reasoning (the thing that seperates man from animals) and examining the worlds history as a whole. It’s kind of like a puzzle all we have to do is put the pieces together from things we hear, see, and read. I’m not saying that nothing is wrong with reading books because I think they are great and I definately plan on finding the book mentioned above, because I love it when my gut feelings turn out to be true, and we were all blessed with it, it’s called intuition and it all relates. I hope someone is able to read this and is feeling where I’m coming from. Another example of this is how they took and continue to take our music especially what they call rock and roll it is the same with history, because history repeats itself in all shapes and sizes. Think about it, I’m going to stop now, cause I feel like I’m preaching. One.

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By Martin ( – 205.188.199.189) on Wednesday, July 26, 2000 – 04:01 am:
A Picture of How Ancient Egyptians saw themselves.

There is a carving on a wall in Egypt that
represents the world’s cultures/peoples as the
Kemetians (Egyptians) saw it THEMSELVES.
It has the Greeks, the Arabs, the nubians and the
Kemetians.

Now as u would expect…the greeks look like
whites, the arabs like arabs (orient),
but……wait a minute…..the Nubians and the
Kemetians look EXACTLY the same. Black Skinned
with fleshy facial features and all…..PURE
BLACK.

I will returen later with an address to where u
can view this picture

No peace until Blacks are self sufficient!!!

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By GREG ( – 24.132.81.212) on Wednesday, July 26, 2000 – 03:41 pm:
to every body open your eyes!!!!!!!!!!

Light Is Caused By Friction Which Is A Form Of Chaos And Destruction. In Some Cases, Light Causes Negative Reactions, And I Can Give Examples Of This. When People Rest, Most People Prefer Darkness Over Light, So They Cut Off The Light In Order To Gain Rest. Now, If The Light’s Are Abruptly Cut On While Some One Is In A State Of Slumber, What Is Their Normal Reaction? They Wake-up, Grumpy, Screaming.. “Turn Off The Lights” Or Maybe Even Threaten You! :o) The Light Disturbed The Darkness, The Same Darkness That Brought PEACE. So Darkness And PEACE Go Hand And Hand, or are one in that same.

When A Baby Is In their Mothers Womb There Is No Light There, Thus The Baby Is In A State Of PEACE Or Darkness. When This Same Baby Comes From The Womb And Meets The Light It’s Peace Is Disrupted, So It Begins To Cry! Once Again The Light Is What Disrupts The Darkness/ Peace!

The Most Sacred Things Can Be Found In Darkness, And Most Of The Most Sacred Things Are Only Hidden To Those Who Can’t See Inter-dimensionally. Like The Brain, The Heart, The Mind, All Things Internal, Including Your GOD! When I Say Inter-dimensionally I Mean You Have To Be Able To See Pass Three Dimensions, Which Is Seeing Beyond Persons, Places And Things.

To Say That One Thing Is Good Is To Say That Another Thing Is Bad! Therefore When The Light Came Friction Between Disagreeable (Bad) And Agreeable (Good) Came To Be. And When Disagreeable And Agreeable Came To Be The “I/ Ego” Came To Be, Separating Things From One Another. Oneness/ Togetherness Is The Exact Opposite Of This, But When The “I/ Ego” Was Created A “Here” And “There” Was Also Created. This Same “Here” And “There” Causes The Separation Of Things And Beings, And This Separation Allows Us To Actually Think That We Are Separate From The Things Around Us. But Light Also Brings With It Illusions, And One Of These Illusions Is Separation (I’ness, Here And There)!

One Comes To Realize That Light Is What Truly Blinds Us, While Darkness Brings Peace, Insight And Togetherness. Light Creates The Thought That “I Am Here And You Are There”, And Enables Us To Think We Are Separate Or Maybe Even Better Than The Things Or People Around Us. When One Comes Into The Fold Of Supreme Darkness/ Supreme Balancement, One Looks Beyond The Light Into The Darkness And Sees That We Are All From One Source And One Force. One Can See That We Are All In “ALL”! We Are One With “ALL” And “ALL” Is One With Us! You Are Not A Special Individual, But A Vital Part Of One Source. It Doesn’t Matter If You Call That Source GOD, Allah/ Ilah, Eloh/ Elohim, Adonai, Osirus, Anu, YHWH Or Jehovah, They All Are A Part Of “ALL”.

So, To Answer The Question Of “Why Would GOD Dwell In Darkness” Is Simple! Because There Is Peace In Darkness, And All Things Come From Darkness. An Example Of This Is COLOR! A Combination Of All Colors Create Black/ Darkness. It Would Then Be Safe To Say That For All Colors To Be, They Must Have Come From Black/ Darkness. So It Would Make A Lot Of Sense That The Bible Would Say GOD Created All Things From The Darkness He Was In, Because Blackness Is The Supreme Balancement Of All Things.

Even In The Bible The Evil One Is Called The “Morning Star” (symbolic of bright brilliant light)! Why not the dark star or the night star? The Evil One Is Also Called The “Illuminated One”, And Is Where The Term “Illuminati” Comes From. So From What We Can See Here, It’s The Light That Cannot Comprehend The Peace Of Blackness, And The Blackness Is Our Key To Peace. It’s The Light That Is Disagreeable, And The Blackness Is Truly Benevolent!

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By IRASTA ( – 195.121.227.104) on Sunday, September 3, 2000 – 01:15 pm:
GREETINGS IN THE NAME OF THE MOST HIGH JAH RASTAFARI HAILE SELASSIE THE FIRST.

THE PROBLEM OF THE BLACK MAN IS THE BLACK MAN HIM SELF.
WHEN HE WILL ACKNOWLEDGE SELASSIE I AS GOD ALMIGHTY, AND NOT THE WHITE JESUS.

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By DARKAND SERIOUS AFRICAN ( – 12.72.64.78) on Thursday, September 7, 2000 – 05:47 am:
EARTH TOO IRASTA, HAILE AIN’T EVEN LOVED BY TO MANY ETHIOPIANS,SO SAVE US THE BS ABOUT HIM BEING GOD. THERE IS NO GOD,SO STOP SPENDING YOUR YRS DREAMING OF ONE. WE ARE THE ONLY GODS WE NEED TO SAVE OURSELFS. ALL CULTS LEAD TO BACKWARDNESS AND DISUNITY. WE ARE OUR OWN SAVIORS,NOT A MAN WHO WASN’T EVEN LOVED BY HIS OWN PEOPLE WHO HE DID SO LITTLE FOR THE MASSES . IF YOUR HONEST YOU’D ADMIT THAT ETHOPIANS ARE SOME OF THE MOST REACTINARY AND RACIST ACTING AFRICANS IN THE WORLD TODAY. THEY HAVE NO RESPECT FOR ALL THE MYTHOLOGICAL THINGS THAT YOU SO BADLY WANT TO BELIEVE IN.IF YOU WENT THERE THEY WOULD LAUGH AT YOU FOR YOUR IGNORANCES OF JUST WHO AND WHAT THE MAN WAS.
YOU PROBABLY THINK I’M AGAINST YOU,YOUR WRONG. WHAT I’M AGAINST IS ANY FORM OF CULTS OF PERSONALITY AROUND ANY HUMAN BEING,IT’S A WASTE OF TIME.

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By HRH-DARKOVERLORD WATCHING OVER YA ( – 12.72.3.43) on Thursday, September 7, 2000 – 07:37 pm:
Iregular rasta;this is the 2nd time I’ve posted a message to you,it seems unGrand La grand is playing at being a censor again.
What I said was the following ;stop with the stupid myths concerning Haile,cuz he isn’t a god nor is he that respected by his own people. Yes he stood up to the europeans,that was his finest hr.
In our quest to escape the racist colonialism ,we have made hero’s out of anyone who stood up to the white power system,that was good. The problem started when ya felt the need to make of all people Haile more then what he was a feudal dictator.
If your aware of the brief history of Rastafari,you know how resent all of this has been ,not even a 100 yrs.
If you know anything about Ethopia you’d know that they are some of the most reactionary Africans on the continent,toward other Africans.They have what can best be termed as racist attiudes towards othe people of African decent. If you think they would feel postive about your worshiip of Selesie then you really don’t do much traveling.
When people don’t see a why out of their bondage and are powerless they create what s called cults,that later become so-called relgions,this is what the whole Rasta movement is about.
I’ve been wearing locks since 1974,I’ve talk to countless Jamincans. Some like the idea others who are more inclined to follow their past white masters hated all Rasta’s and everything they stood for. This is not my postion,there are postive messages to be learned from any ideology.The pt is where do you leave off the myths and other false teachings that do nothing to push us further toward our goals of mental and physical liberation. Your probably thinking if he ain’t for Seleasie he’s against I AND I,not so. All cults from christiantiy to islam,have the same effect ,to remove us from, the simple fact of what we as Africans must be most aware of.
Ask yourself this question ,have you ever heard of Marcus Garvey proclaiming Haile as some divine savior? We both know the answer to that question,no.
You have a brain and you’ll believe whatever you think can free you from the pain of babalyon. What I want you to understand is this,there are NO GODS, so this means if there are to be changes in our lifes we have to make them. Sooner or later if your a truly concious African you’ll come to this conclusion. On the other hand if this is your drug of choice maybe you’ll never awake from this sleep of the oppressed.
Whatever road you choose ,know this your still my people and I will struggle for your rights like I hope you would mine.

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By GREG ( – 24.132.81.212) on Friday, September 8, 2000 – 01:56 pm:
The Hebrew People of the Bible What Color are They?

For years, people of the world have been led to believe that the people of the bible were white people, when in fact they were black. Hollywood, one of the many contributing factors to this cause, isn’t innocent to this either, they take the front line for the ranks of deception. We the people of the world should not continue to let this occur because the ones to be affected by this will be the children of the future.

Movies, television and some white people portray the people of the bible as white. What should it matter, if they are white or black. Should it matter, if they are white or black? If I were white, I’d say no, and if this was an ideal world and if all affluent people looked like me. But we are living in a world of lies and deception and when the children’s minds develop off of the deception that is being told and taught, then the truth must be brought to the forefront. Also, I am not white and the more affluent doesn’t look like me.

People of color are more vulnerable and are more easily to believe what is being told to them, especially when their history has been erased from their minds, and it is constantly battered in their heads through their educational systems, television, and movie theaters. Well, the time has come for the truth to be told. And what is that truth? That the people of the bible are people of color.

Before I can go forward, I need to go backwards into some history. Lets look at the people of the bible, who had who.

Genesis 10:2-4, Japheth begot Gomer (*Galatians) (**Germany, Crimea, Cambria, Celts), Magog (*Scythians) (**Georgia, Scythians), Madai (*Medes), Javan (*Grecians), Tubal (*Iberes), Meshech (**Moscow), and Tiras. Gomer begot Ashkenaz (*Rheginians) (**Germany, Saxons, Scandavia), Riphath, and Togarmah. Javan begot Elishah, Tarshish, Kittim (**Cyprus) (Abraham ibn Ezra said the Romans were descended from Kittim), and Dodanim. (*denotes The Complete Works of Josephus. **denotes The table of the Nations off the Web)

Genesis 10:6-18, Ham begot Cush (*Ethiopians), Mizraim (*Egypt), Phut (*Libya), and Canaan. Cush begot Nimrod, Seba, Havilah, Sabtah, Raamah, and Sabtechah. Raamah begot Sheba and Dedan. Mizraim begot Ludim, Anamim, Lehabim, Naphtuhim, Pathrusim, Casluhim, and Caphtorim. Canaan begot Sidon, Heth, Jebusites, Amorites, Girgasites, Hivites, Arkites, Sinites, Arvadites, Zemarites, and Hamathite.

Genesis 10:22-29, Shem begot Elam, Asshur, Arphaxad (*Chaldeans), Lud, and Aram. Aram begot Uz, Hul, Gether, and Mash. Arphaxad begot Salah. Salah begot Eber. Eber begot Peleg (from here comes the family of Abraham) and Joktan. Joktan begot Almodad, Sheleph, Hazarmaveth, Jerah, Hadoram, Uzal, Diklah, Obal, Abimael, Sheba, Ophir, Havilah, and Jobab
.
And Noah and his wife created Japheth, Ham, and Shem.

After the dispersion of the people by God at the tower of Babel, each went into their own region of the world. Japheth and his family went into Europe. Shem and Ham stayed in the area, so to say.

Mizraim (Egypt) and some of his family went into a land now called Africa, but it wasn’t called Africa then. Cush (Ethiopia) had a very large area which even went into what is now called Middle East. Remember, Nimrod was a Cushite and the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, Erech, Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar.

Around 1913BCE, there was a famine in the land. And due to the famine, Abram (Abraham) and his wife Sarai journeyed to the land of Egypt. But before he entered the land of Egypt he said to Sarai, “Behold now, I know that you art a fair woman to look upon. And it will come to pass, when the Egyptians shall see thee, that they will say: This is his wife; and they will kill me, but thee they will keep alive.”

Now the incident came to pass, but Rabbi Shelomoh Yitschaki, Solomon ben Isaac, also known as Rashi, said in his commentaries, reference behold now, I know that thou art a fair woman, “Knowing that you are beautiful, I realize that your beauty is now a source of danger, particularly since the Egyptians are dark-skinned and ugly.” Besides this being a ridiculous comment, the point that I am trying to point out is the fact that the Rabbi has stated that the Egyptians were people of color. Webster’s New Collegiate Dictionary defines black as, “Having a dark skin . . . ” and “a person belonging to a dark skinned race . .

. ” This may seem irrelevant now, but this quote by Rashi is going to back fire on him. Stick with me. Also at least they have finally admitted that the Egyptians were people of color.

Next, Joseph, one of the twelve sons of Jacob, from the twelve tribes of Israel, was sold to some Ishmaelites by his brothers out of anger. The Ishmaelites took Joseph into Egypt and sold him to the Egyptians. Later a famine had struck the land of Egypt and Canaan and according to the Bible all the lands and was very devastating. Jacob instructed several of his sons to go into Egypt and buy food because Egypt had enough to sell.

When the brothers of Joseph, the sons of Jacob had entered the land of Egypt, they were told to see a particular person. Not knowing oh the individual was they were going to see, when they faced him, they didn’t recognize him, but Joseph recognized them. If Joseph is supposed to be a white person, and he was in the mist of black people, don’t you think his brothers would have recognized him immediately. Why didn’t his brothers recognize him immediately? Could it have been due to him being black amongst black people and he blended in? A white person definitely would have been able to be pointed out if he was amongst black slaves during slavery time. Don’t you think?

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By GREG ( – 24.132.81.212) on Friday, September 8, 2000 – 01:56 pm:
Next, while the Israelites were living in the land of Egypt, Pharaoh had commanded for all the Israelite males to be exterminated. Now during this time, a couple from the Israelite people had borne a son, and they had hid him for three months. When they couldn’t hide him no longer, she put the child into a basket and placed it among the reeds by the bank of the Nile. The daughter of Pharaoh, wanting to bathe in the Nile, went to the banks and saw the basket among the reeds and when she opened the basket she saw a baby in it. Being that the baby was very young, she instructed a Hebrew family, coincidently the baby’s mother, to nurse the child until he was weaned. Once he was weaned, she brought the boy to her father and asked if she could keep the child, and her father said yes. Also, the baby was named Moses.

Remembering that the Egyptians were black, if Moses was white and knowing that Pharaoh had issued a decree to kill all the Hebrew males, wouldn’t he have killed Moses immediately when she brought this supposedly white child into her father’s house? Also, if he was white, do you think Pharaoh’s daughter would have even let the child live when she found him by the Nile? Obviously we must say no.

Finally, Moses lived amongst the Egyptians for years and one day when he saw an Egyptian abusing a Hebrew, he came to the aide of the Hebrew and killed the Egyptian. Knowing that the word would get out and back to Pharaoh, he fled Egypt and went to the land of Midian. Upon entering Midian he came to the aide of some women of the land and helped them. They were very grateful and ran back and told their father that an “Egyptian” saved them.

Again, if he was mistaking for an Egyptian, and knowing that the Egyptians are supposedly dark-skinned and ugly, does this make Moses dark-skinned and ugly too? This is where people need to watch what they say. It may come back to haunt you.

What I have presented here, which is merely speculation. The only proof that I have given where someone has said the Egyptians where black was by the Rabbi. So let me notegive more facts for you to think about.

Herodotus (484? -425? BC) was one of the most widely traveled people of his time. His writings show his interest in both history and geography. Herodotus was born in Halicarnassus, a Greek colony in Asia Minor. He was a frequent visitor to Athens, he was a close friend of Sophocles. He also journeyed to the western shores of the Black Sea, to southern Italy and Egypt, and to the Asian cities of Tyre, Babylon, Ecbatana, Nineveh, and Susa, says the Compton’s Interactive encyclopedia.

During his travels, Herodotus kept a journal of his activities. The journal was later translated, and in one of his entries, he wrote the following about the Egyptians or to be more exact the natives:

” …it is certain that the natives of the country are black . . . ; there can be no doubt that the Colchians are an Egyptians race . . . I made this inquiries on the subject both in Colchis and in Egypt, and I found that the Colchians had a more distinct recollection of the Egyptians, than the Egyptians had of them . . . My own conjectures were founded, first, on the fact that they are black-skinned and have woolly hair . . . ”

Now, what I have done here is give a positive identification of the Egyptians. And by me doing this and showing that the Israelites always got mistaken for them, prove that they both, the Egyptians and the Israelites were black people.

You may still have your doubts and desire more evidence before you will acknowledge that the Bibilical Israelites were a black people. So, allow me to continue.
Solomon Grayzel, a white Jewish historian, wrote in his book, A History of the Jews, in the ninth century CE (AD), a man appeared in north Africa among the Hebrews there, his name was Eldad from the tribe of Dan, he was a danite. They said he spoke a strange language and told them a weird story. He said the members of his tribe had escaped Israel after Sennacherib had conquered Israel, and other Hebrews from other tribes also live in the land from where he came from. He told the Hebrews in the northern part of Africa all the law that his people follow, which was given to his tribe by tradition from Moses successor Joshua ben Nun. The Hebrews of the northern part of Africa at first was in question about his story, but threw further examine by the Gaon, he assured the northern African Hebrews the story was legitimate.

I have mentioned this story because Mr Grayzel went on to say, “Some modern scholars argue that Eldad was an Ethiopian Jew, a descendant of the ancient colony which, in the days of Ezra, lived on the southern border of Egypt . . . ” If you know your history, and if you know what color the Ethiopian Jews are, then you have already come to the conclusion that Eldad the Danite, from the tribe of Dan, one of the twelve tribes of Israel was a black man.

Another story that I want to tell you about is in a book entitled “The Hope of Israel,” by Menasseh ben Israel which was published 1652. In it speaks of an incident that occurred with a traveler named Antonio de Montezinos. It says upon Montezinos return from the Americas, it is sufficient here to know that he has found the descendants of the lost ten tribes. At this point, I am going to quote the letter from Menasseh ben Israel to John Dury concerning what he said. The letter was dated 25 November 1649 and it reads, “Curiously enough, in the sixteenth century one Antonio Montesino of Lima stated, according to the writings of Luis Lopez, Bishop of Quito, that The Indians of the islands and mainland of the Indies . . . are Hebrews descended from the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel’. And he did say further in his book, “that they keepe their true religion, as hoping to returne again into the Holy land in due time.”

People, if this isn’t enough proof as to say what color the Hebrews were, then you are truly in a state of denial.

Also, as for a pictorial concerning the children of Israel. In a documentary on the Art & Entertainment channel, titled In Search of The Ten Commandments, it showed an ancient hieroglyphic picture of the Israelites while they were slaves in Egypt, and they were black. They looked just like the Egyptians. So I can see why Moses was mistaken for an Egyptian, and why Joseph wasn’t recognized by his brothers.

Finally, I am going to list three passages from the bible identifying the color of the Israelites. They are:
Lamentation 4:8, Their visage (face) is blacker than coal
Lamentation 5:10, Our skin was black like an oven . . .
; And Job 30:30, My skin is black upon me . . .

In this document, I have given enough information proving that the Hebrews are black people. But I say to you all, this isn’t enough. Teach your children the truth!

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By bmawute ( – 206.170.78.254) on Tuesday, September 19, 2000 – 04:12 pm:
To DarkandSerious Afrikan – There is a God. Only you can find him. To Foreversearching – I am sorry to hear that you let Islam go. Islam only means peach and Muslim means submission to the will of God. I believe we all want peace and if you believe in the higher power, submission to him is not a problem, as he only wants what is good for us if we are obedient. Who better to know what is best for you than HE who created you. I also believe all people of color believe in the Creator irregardless of what you call him. He said, “I will be called by many names”. In regards to the European, all we need to do is just leave him alone and stay away from him and he will self destruct and disappear. Black people, stay prayerful, stay focused, continue to study and seek truth and truth will be revealed to you. Black Man Rising!

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By Dark and contemplative ( – 12.72.0.254) on Tuesday, September 19, 2000 – 09:00 pm:
Because i feel you mean well,I’ll refrain from being to harsh with you.
I’m an ATHEIST,I was never involved with Islam,even though I have family members that are. Unlike yourself I don’t feel any need or desire to believe in any form of supreme being. My feels are the following;your need to believe is your drug to ward off the pain of dealing with this insane world we live in.
On the subject of white people I deal with those who are attempting in some concrete way ,to struggle with white racism,the rest I deal with in whatever form they present themselves as.
I have no illusions about all African people being in unity,or even feeling the need for struggle,so the samething applies to them.
Your need for Islam is your need,not my. On things we can agree on I’m more then willing to support and contribute to the dicussion. So welcome to the forum,it’s good to hear from you even though I don’t agree with you ,your input is good.

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By Dark and tired of UNGRAND LEGRAND,the poser! ( – 12.72.0.250) on Wednesday, September 20, 2000 – 03:24 pm:
This is my 2nd attempt at responding to you bmawute.
Ungrand Legrand,who host this forum is a censoring fanatic,he needs to go to a conservative right wing NEGRO site. This isn’t the first time I’ve confronted him about this silliness.He’s suppose to be a historian and a lawyer,yet he can’t deal with certain opinions I have on the topics and response of some of the posters.
This is a stupid idea,trying to control what he thinks others should say,considering that the rest of this site doesn’t feel the need to follow suite.So I don’t expect you’ll see this post either,since UNGRAND IS ACTING LIKE SOME RIGHT WING FACIST!
UNGRANDLegrand if I ever get to confront you ,you can depend on me telling you the same thing face to face.Stop tryna control ideas and opinions.
What I said Bmawute is that I’m an ATHEIST, it doesn’t matter to me what reglious belief you have cause all of it is a form of drugs,for the masses who feel the need to want to believe in something called——–,whatever you want to call it.
Now since this is so threatening to Ungrand LEGRAND,I assume he’s like you a believer in relgious myths. I guess it just shows with all the knowledge of African history and law ,TINY MINDED UNGRAND Legrand still can’t get beyond his antiquated beliefs concerning what’s called religion,so much for giving the appearance of being a progressive African THINKER!

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By Pharoah #1 ( – 199.180.3.66) on Sunday, September 24, 2000 – 11:57 pm:
Hotep

This is just a greeting to my brothers & sisters, not for sick white folks that hate human beings because of their god given features and culture that God Ra blessed us to embrace. The comments made by white boy(peckerwood) is just reminder why we must continue to seek the truth and not settle for historical info. from whites,arabs etc. and that we need to settle our petty differances and truely love each other as africans. Let us not get upset when we here comments from the devil, continue to study and build upon your knowledge that you were blessed by god to receive.

I beleive that brother Dale Jones said it best in his documentary ( The American Nigger Factory ) when you let others get into your culture it is on mickey mouse. Meaning that when you take white folks for chumps and suckers and we let them dictate the course of our community, fianance,history and the education of our children then we have lost the battle for freedom and equallity.

Hotep, kemites.

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By Drew Peters ( – 24.164.152.3) on Sunday, October 1, 2000 – 03:49 pm:
Race is NOT Culture

The differences between an African-American and a white American are infintesimal compared to the differences between an African-American and a Frenchman of African descent. Ask a dark-skinned man from Guadaloupe what he is and he will tell you that he is French. His race is not important to his identity.

Why do Americans of Black West Indian origin and African Americans whose forebears were established in the northern states before the Emancipation Proclamation have income levels typical of caucasians while othe African-Americans do not?

Which of the 7 values of the Kwanzaa holiday are cultural blocks to economic advancement? (None of these are found in all African cultures but can be identified in non-African cultures like India).

Why is Eithiopia so rich in architectural heritage? Why has Ethiopian Airways always been regarded as one of the industries finest? Why are Eithiopian banks so strong?

Why do African-American tourists cry when they are told by West African tour guides that slaves were captured and remained the property of other Africans until delivered to the docks? Why do Africans think the African-American tourist’s reaction is strange?

Why do so many African-Americans have such a strong racial identity? Does this present problems for black immigrants that come from cultural backgrounds less racially defined?

Why does the US have to rely on immigration from India to keep the technology industry strong?

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By Ms. Sprung ( – 206.128.192.142) on Friday, October 20, 2000 – 04:47 pm:
I congratulate people like BMAWUTE for having as the center of his or her message the purpose of “staying focused”, because if we keep falling into the sick games and evident sense of inferiority as shown by the negative contributions some white folks have done, we will fall into their trap and convert this discussion into a war zone, or a source for exchange of insults instead of the determined uplifting purposes it is intended to. For instance, BRYAN HARMAN calls himself and ‘educated person’, but he goes on to state that some Arabs are darker than black people. There is proof that blacks were the first human species on Earth, and remember that the Arabs invaded Egypt, which of course involves racial mixture and explains why there are Arabs who are very dark. You would realize that the world’s black culture is filled with people of different skin tones which go from the lightest cinamon shades to the deepest, sweetest darkest black! Yes, I add sweetest because everytime I set my eyes on a very dark man, I just melt by contemplating such a Godly gift! Oh…when you refer to slavery and sexual violence in Africa, remember that those are actions initiated by whites. Hitler is a perfect example of violence and hatred, and if you want to talk about inferiority, his whole purpose for wanting to exterminate Jews was based on feelings and concepts of inferiority, as well as the caucasian invadors of Africa who envied the strenght of the black man, the beauty and resistance of his skin, not to mention the covetting of the overwhelming physical and spiritual attributes of splendid black women. If you are physically, emotionally and spiritually secure…WHY DO YOU LOOK UPON OTHERS??? WHY BOTHER THEM???? WHY QUESTION THEM??? WHY THE NEED TO DOMINATE THEM???? WHY SO INTREIGUED AND DISGUISINGLY FASCINATED BY THEM IN SO MANY FORMS???? If the Arian Nation was all that, then why trouble the Jews? If Europe and all caucasians were sufficiently secure, why did they need Africans to subject them to slavery, and to help build what we have today? Were white women not enough for them? IF THEY ARE SO PERFECT AND PURE!!!! Why is the world so multi-racial today, with black traits and prints beaming in most regions of the world? Some people just can’t face the fact that the black race is the most underestimated, but influential and intreiguing one in existance. We have always been here. Presently, they still try to put us down, and cleverly promote disputes and conflicts among ourselves, but they will never extinguish us, and the more they try to bring us down, insult us, and discredit us, the more the thruth will emerge, and their fear and intimidation becomes more evident.
GREG, loved your comments on “darkness”! KEGIMI!!! You go, you black beautiful child of God!…because if any athiest reads the Bible he or she will realize that actual world events coincide with what it expresses. Proof is the success of every theory, and what’s going on in Israel and the Middle East is spread out in the Bible, as well as the proof provided by this web site concerning black people beginning civilization!

Ms. Sprung!

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By Know-thy-self ( – 205.188.192.53) on Wednesday, October 25, 2000 – 02:09 am:
What was the point of that last post DREW PETERS?

I notice that whites/househands come to this
site preaching every culture love one another….

But when attempts to make positive/Unifying
Relationships relationships With Continental
Africans are made….They go on a mad frenzy
trying to point out our differences and laying
seeds for devision.

These are basically attempts bye the white culture
to gain the Loyalty of the Black culture. Not our
equality….loyalty. And if we give it to
them…the will joyously use as house hands to
further colonialize and rape the resources of the
richest continent in the world……

AFRICA

Europeans control the ENTIRE continent of Africa.
They devided up the land like a giant pizza…each
Europeans gettin their own little piece (German,
French, English, etc.)

We do have one large similarity…WE BOTH LIVE
UNDER THE SAME EUROPEAN DOMINATION!!!!

and ps
Shallow Capitalism is not a culture. That is the
only thing we have in common Drew peters.

PPS
Please refrain from speaking for blacks in other
parts of the World on what their cultural values
are. You do not reserve the right.
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By bmawute ( – 206.170.78.254) on Thursday, October 26, 2000 – 03:32 pm:
To Dark and Contemplative – If you do not believe in God or the Higher Power, who do you believe in, and where do you think the human family comes from? You notice that I DID say human, I did not say mankind. Hue means color. Surely you don’t believe in the theory of evolution!

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By bmawute ( – 206.170.78.254) on Thursday, October 26, 2000 – 03:52 pm:
To Know Thy Self – Very well put my brother. Shallow capitalism IS the only thing we really have in common with them. It is amazing how they think that even as we struggle for our true identity, we must have them to help to guide and direct us with this also. How arrogant! Peace and Love.

Black Man Rising!

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By DARK AND EXTREMELY SERIOUS! ( – 12.72.1.40) on Friday, October 27, 2000 – 02:42 pm:
WHO OR WHAT DO I BELIEVE IN YOU ASK. I BELIEVE IN THE BETTER QUALITIES OF THE THINGS THAT CALL THEMSELVES HUMANS.YES I DO BELIEVE IN WHAT’S CALLED EVOLUTION. THE SO-CALLED HUMAN FAMILY COMES FROM THE UNIVERSE.IT IS PART OF ALL THAT IS.
NOW OF COURSE THIS PROBABLY SEEMS TO SIMPLE FOR YOU,TO BELIEVE. WHAT I’VE SEEN FROM YOU TELLS ME YOUR LIKE MOST SO-CALLED SPIRITUAL OR RELGIOUS,PEOPLE YOU SEEK TO MAKE EVERYTHING INTO SOME FORM OF CONVOLUTED MYSTERY LACED WITH ALOT OF MEANINGLESS THEORIES,ABOUT SUPERNATURAL FORCES,WHAT YOU CALL GOD!

TO ME IT’S ALL MEANINGLESS PSYCHO BABBLE,FOR THE MASSES AND THOSE WHO ARE AFRAID OF THE WORLD THEY LIVE IN.SINCE NONE OF THIS MADNESS HAS EVER HAD A POSTIVE AFFECT ON OUR COLLECTIVE STRUGGLES,IT’S MEANINGLESS TO EVEN WASTE MY MIND ON THE TOPIC.

HISTORICALLY RELGIONS HAVE BEEN AND CONTIUNE TO BE VEHICLES TO CONTROL AND MISDIRECT HUMANS. EVEN IN TODAYS WORLD WE SEE IT BEING,PLAYED OUT ALL OF OVER THE WORLD,FROM AFRICA TO THE MIDDLE EAST.

TO ME PHILOSOPHY IS THE MEAT OF DEAD MEN AND RELGIOUS MANIA IS THE BREAD. SO THERE YOU HAVE IT IN A NUT SHELL,REAL SIMPLE AND WITH OUT ALOT OF HOCUS POCUS!

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By MenNefer ( – 152.163.213.47) on Thursday, November 23, 2000 – 02:46 am:
Tua NETER!! MAN..THIS WEB PAGE IS WILD AND REVEALS THE MALAISE THAT RUNS RAMPID AMONGST ALL CULTURES AND FURTHER DELUDES.I HAVE A PROVERB TO OFFER…DO NOT SEEK TO FOLLOW IN THE FOOTSTEPS OF THE MEN OF OLD;SEEK WHAT THEY SOUGHT.IN NO WAY AM I GOING TO TRY AND INTIMATE SOME MAGICAL TRANFORMATIVE LINEAR PHRASE TO TRY AND CALIBRATE,FURTHER MORE, CIVILIZE A MIND IN NEED OF SPIRITUAL REMUNERATION,I ONLY WANT TO SAY STOP ARGUING OVER A FALLIABLE STRUCTURE STOP CRYING AND TRYING TO PROVE TO EACH OTHER AD NAUSEUM THE ETHNICITY OF THE ANCIENT ONES ,THOSE WHO TRULY KNOW SHOULD BE PROUD THAT DOGS HAVE CONFLUENCED AROUND THE TABLE TO GET SCRAPS BECAUSE THEY WANT THE TRUTH TOO BUT NOT THE REALITY OF THE CULTURE HMMM THERE WHITE WIG WEARING ANCESTORES SPENT ARDUOUS YEARS TRYING TO PUT A DAMN LABEL ON EVERYTHING AND WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THATS GOING TO STOP,IF YOU WANT TO CHECK ONE OF THESE PSUEDOCONCIOUS NEGROES TRY LIVING THE LAWS OF MA-AT ,LET HER MEANING AND ESSENCE PERVADE YOUR SPHERE OF AWARENESS IF NOT WE KAMAU WE MA-AT KHERU ARE NOT TRYING TO HERE ANYMORE INANE RANTINGS SPEW FORTH FROM YOUR FORKED TOUNGE NO MATTER WHAT SHADE YOU REPRESENTING THE TRUTH IS THE TRUTH!!!!!!

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By Darkoverlord;waitng to see what this is all about ( – 12.72.0.107) on Wednesday, November 29, 2000 – 02:45 pm:
In order to communicate a message,you have to speak in words that reflect what it is your trying to say. Speaking metaporically ,doesn’t work for the unenlightened.
Since your here,we have to ask what did ya bring,besides a few expressions frmon the muter neter. Being PADONTIC,serves what purpose,or then to mysitfy ?If ya came with info. then make it seen,if ya came with more deliberate mysicism,we’ve seen it all before.

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By DARKOVERLORD ( – 164.124.250.203) on Wednesday, November 29, 2000 – 11:23 pm:
IT MUST BE BEING EBONICS OR SOMETHING-AND SHE-IT!!

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By Ptah Da Architect ( – 216.42.39.154) on Wednesday, December 6, 2000 – 12:15 pm:
Em Hotep, I have this book & I must say that although I haven’t finished it yet it is a MUST HAVE! I’m not all for wild-out theories on the ethnicity of our ancestors but I am for correcting the wrong and the mis-takes made when portraying us (Africans) to the world. Honestly if you KNOW then it won’t matter about debating who was black & who wasn’t. Mer Ua Em Hotep Ptah

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By Angela Diarberry ( – 24.229.76.95) on Friday, December 8, 2000 – 12:04 am:
I am here because I homeschool my children and want to know what to teach my children about kwanzaa. I have never been taught anything about it. I have a few questions:

1. Does having a separate holiday for black people contribute to the lack of unity among whites and blacks? Isn’t the goal equality rather than constantly pointing out our differences? How will we ever have peace if we don’t “melt” together?
2. Why do black people refer to themselves as African-Americans? Wouldn’t it be more conducive to peace if we just called each other American? I mean, I don’t go around calling myself European American. I did have ancestors who were from European descent, but they were all dead years before I was born and I have no desire to live in Europe. My connections, my patriotism, and my roots are all 100% American.
3. Is it silly for white people to celebrate Kwanzaa? (Similar to how non-Irish people celebrate St. Patrick’s day) Why or why not?

Hopefully we can benefit from good, intelligent dialog.

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By propheTess ( – 204.0.154.135) on Wednesday, December 20, 2000 – 05:32 pm:
To any very confused person: this is for you.

Mathematically, logically and with intelligent reasoning ( as one brother put it earlier on)
you may judge superiority in race by their ability
to survive and endure any circumstance. The being that develops and masters this technique; whether they are literate or not, black, white, red or green,fast or slow,civilized /uncivilized, etc…
This Being of existance (Collectively) is historically far more superior on earth & through
out the Universe. DO THE MATH and STUDY UP ON THAT STORY(NOT HIS STORY)!

KEEP RISING MY BEAUTIFUL BLACK PEOPLE- propheTess

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By Mike E ( – 205.212.150.240) on Tuesday, December 26, 2000 – 10:30 am:
To Angela Diarberry
I would not teach my kids anything about kwanzaa the whole “so called holiday” is nothing but racism, it was a made up holiday to push along racism and if you were to talk to the people that follow this stuff you will find out they hate whites, asian’s, european’s, you will even find out that they even hate black’s that don’t believe there garbage, it’s like this african american stuff, I have asked WHERE is AFRICA AMERICA, and nobody has answered me yet, and the ones that say that the true God of the bible KJV is black have no proof of that, there taking verses out of context, what was Jesus He was a Jew, the earth is only 6000-7000 years old we can prove that, we know the different colors and races started at the tower bable, the bible say’s that but it says nothing of what color Adam was as far as I can find, so no I would not teach your children about kwanzaa it is about hate!!!

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By Blondie ( – 209.46.58.254) on Friday, December 29, 2000 – 03:41 pm:
Wow- to Angela Diarberry- Congrats on teaching your children the importance of different cultures! I am also a white female that is studying up on different cultures/traditions/ roles/race ect. and have questions raised like yours. I hope someone that is open-minded, honest and willing to teach, not preach, can/will answer them. I am interested in seeing the black American’s point of view. I know that I share the same view as in question #2. I could give many of my own answers- but they always tend to lead to more questions! Also, for whites to celebrate Kwanzaa, would it be hipprocritical? I know I wouldn’t celebrate Hannakuh- but that is religious. Kwanzaa carries some very strong points for any culture.
I had to say “wow” at the beginning because of the response from Mike E.. My own personal opinion is that he is an idiot, and an embarrasasment to my race, and should just have his mouth taped and then thrown into a corner. But maybe Angela should show his answer to her children and see what they learn from it. Sometimes studying ignorance can be the best lesson.
I came to this website to learn about Kwanzaa, and end up for the last hour reading through letters about arguements I didn’t even know exsisted/mattered, of frustation, of rage. The arguement of who came first amazes me. To me, it makes sense the black people orginated first. Life will begin to exist where conditions are optimal. Humans started to lose color, “became white,” when they migrated to northern, colder conditions. Dark pigment, fleshy facial features disappeared when they hindered survival in the cooler climates. I don’t agree with the arguement that whites are selfish and greedy, but if you look at it, as a primitive being, living in the cold, snow, having to search for food, don’t you think as a people, it makes sense that whites are more aggressive? And does that really make whites evil? I think it is more of terms of survival of the fittest. I don’t know. Please don’t think I’m trivialising anything, and maybe I am way off base. I’m trying to learn, and unfortunately there is no easy answer. At least not in the US. I just think too many people get caught up on little things, and it becomes whoever can scream the loudest wins.
So anyway- that’s this white girl’s 2 cents.

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By Tjmax ( – 209.240.220.242) on Friday, January 5, 2001 – 02:05 pm:
So many whites have come to black sites to try to discredit afrocentric history,so rather than keep throwing hurtful words back and forth at each other,whitch do not add any insight
to this debate,so am about to bring some insight to the afrocentric debate.I’ll first quote some white scholars and their research and then we can move on to quote the ancient people who saw and understood what they were seening.Now,first we’ll see what some modern whites had to say,then we’ll go on to what the ancient people had to say[from the book The missing pages of his-story by Indus Khamit Kush :Professor Beatrice lumpkin raises a very critical question[why haven’t we been taught that the base of our so-called western civilization was created by the African peoples of Egypt

Two other European historians put it like this:The hisorians R.R.Palmer and joel calton in their massive book A History of the modern world wrote:There was really no Europe in ancient times.Europeans were by no means the pioneers of human civilization.Half of recorded history had passed before anyone in Europe could read or write.The priests of Egypt began to keep written records between 4000 and 3000 B.C.,while the pharaohs were building the frst pyramids,Europeans were creating nothing more distinguishe than huge garbage heaps. Jacques Weulersse,a French historian,in his work L’Afrique Noire compares Africa with Europe and candidly writes:At a time when all Europe was only savagery,when Paris and london were swamps, and Rome and Athens uninhabited sites, Africa already possessed an antique civilization in the valley of the nile;it had populous cities…great public works,sciences,and arts;it had already produced Gods. Was it not Aristotle who said:The races that live in cold regions and those of Europe are full of courage and passion but somewhat lacking in skill and brain power;they lack political cohesion and the ability to rule others. Professor Erman in his book,life in ancient Egypt states:Ethnologists assert that nothing exists in the physical structure of the Egyptian to distinguish him from the native African,and that from the Egyptian to the negro population of tropical Africa,a series of links exist which do not admit of a break. Egyptologist G.R.Gliddon lays out the conclusion we must come to if we accept the African origins of the ancient Egyptians:so far then,as the record,scriptural,historical and monumental,will afford us an insight into the early progress of the human race in Egypt[the most ancient of allcivilized countries]that civilization originated in Ethiopia,and consequently among an African people,and was by them brought down the nile…we,who trace back to Egypt the origins of every art and science known in antiquity,have to thank the sable Negro…for the first gleams of knowledge and invention. According to the scholar,Joseph McCabe:”…our ancestors remained…pure barbarians,during the two thousand years when the dark men…were constructing civilization…until about 700B.C. the philosophers of the world would have said that white men seemed incapable of civilization…quoteing from the book ,The new science and the story of evolution,p.292-98. Gaston Masoero[1846-1916]on the opinion of all the ancient writers on te Egyptian race states:By the almost unanimous testimony of ancient historians,they belonged to an African race. There is a lot more,but my time is limited,so I leave you with this by that eminent black scholar and historian,John Henrik Clarke,who once commented:some people…had come to your land taken you over,processed your mind into thinking he has always been civilized and you have always been waiting for him to bring the light.What happened when you found out that he had no light.

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By bmawute ( – 206.170.78.254) on Friday, January 5, 2001 – 04:35 pm:
God created himself out of triple darkness and then he made man in his image and after his own likeness. The original man was black. There is no question about that. Archeologists of all races have to acknowledge that fact. They have been digging all over the world for many many years and everything that they dig up looks like Black people. This certainly bears witness to who was here first. The european’s history can only be traced back 6,000 years, that is why he tries to make people believe that that is when the earth started. He wants to take credit for the pyramids, but he was not there. With all of his technology, he still cannot explain how the pyramids remain at 72 degrees at all times. It baffles him. The Black man goes back millions of years, this is why I can’t understand how we can allow the european to tell us about God and who he is. How arrogant of him, how gullible of us, when we survived for so many centuries before he was even created. Do we really believe that we knew nothing of God and spirituality before his late arrival. He is the last species of mankind to arrive on the planet and has raised more hell and caused more death and destruction than all of the other races combined. One only has to study, pray for understanding and use common sense to understand who we are and what our purpose is. When you look into the eyes of the Black Man and Black Woman, you are looking into the eyes of GOD! This is why the european feels so compelled to keep us deaf, dumb, blind and divided. He knows that if you study your origins and understand where and who you came from, you will no longer look at him with a kind of awe and worship. You will begin to see that he is not a giant after all. He is a master of illusion and trickery. You will no longer fear him and you will take your rightful place in the world, and that is on top. This is why he fears you and feels a need to keep the Black race divided. He doesn’t have a problem with Jewish, Asian, Korean, or Mexican unity, but every time we talk about unity, he tells us that we are just americans and calls us racists when we make an effort to heal our families and communities. If we are really “just americans”, why are we always at the bottom of everything that is good, and at the top of everything that is negative? Wake up Black Man and Black Woman. Stay focused, stay prayerful and obedient and continue to study and then we will awaken from this deep sleep that we have been put into. We are a beautiful, intelligent, creative and magnificent people when we are in our right minds.
Black Man Rising!

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By Madhuri Kayvalya ( – 63.44.251.208) on Saturday, February 24, 2001 – 02:44 am:
The Hitler Project
Bush Property Seized–Trading with the Enemy

In October 1942, ten months after entering World War II, America was preparing its first assault against Nazi military forces. Prescott Bush was managing partner of Brown Brothers Harriman. His 18-year-old son George, the future U.S. President, had just begun training to become a naval pilot. On Oct. 20, 1942, the U.S. government ordered the seizure of Nazi German banking operations in New York City which were being conducted by Prescott Bush.

President Bush’s family had already played a central role in financing and arming Adolf Hitler for his takeover of Germany; in financing and managing the buildup of Nazi war industries for the conquest of Europe and war against the U.S.A.; and in the development of Nazi genocide theories and racial propaganda, with their well-known results.

The facts presented here must be known, and their implications reflected upon, for a proper understanding of President George Herbert Walker Bush and of the danger to mankind that he represents. The President’s family fortune was largely a result of the Hitler project. The powerful Anglo-American family associations, which later boosted him into the Central Intelligence Agency and up to the White House, were his father’s partners in the Hitler project.

By deciding that Prescott Bush and the other directors of the Union Banking Corp. were legally front men for the Nazis, the government avoided the more important historical issue: In what way were Hitler’s Nazis themselves hired, armed and instructed by the New York and London clique of which Prescott Bush was an executive manager? Let us examine the Harriman-Bush Hitler project from the 1920s until it was partially broken up, to seek an answer for that question.

Origin and Extent of the Project
Fritz Thyssen and his business partners are universally recognized as the most important German financiers of Adolf Hitler’s takeover of Germany. At the time of the order seizing the Thyssen family’s Union Banking Corp., Mr. Fritz Thyssen had already published his famous book, I Paid Hitler, admitting that he had financed Adolf Hitler and the Nazi movement since October 1923. Thyssen’s role as the leading early backer of Hitler’s grab for power in Germany had been noted by U.S. diplomats in Berlin in 1932

Prescott Bush became vice president of W.A. Harriman & Co. in 1926. That same year, a friend of Harriman and Bush set up a giant new organization for their client Fritz Thyssen, prime sponsor of politician Adolf Hitler. The new German Steel Trust, Germany’s largest industrial corporation, was organized in 1926 by Wall Street banker Clarence Dillon. Dillon was the old comrade of Prescott Bush’s father Sam Bush from the “ Merchants of Death ” bureau in World War I.

Brown Brothers had a racial tradition that fitted it well for the Hitler project! American patriots had cursed its name back in U.S. Civil War days. Brown Brothers, with offices in the U.S.A. and in England, had carried on their ships fully 75 percent of the slave cotton from the American South over to British mill owners. Now in 1931, the virtual dictator of world finance, Bank of England Governor Montagu Collet Norman, was a former Brown Brothers partner, whose grandfather had been boss of Brown Brothers during the U.S. Civil War.

In 1931, while Prescott Bush ran the New York office of Brown Brothers Harriman, Prescott’s partner was Montagu Norman’s intimate friend Thatcher Brown. The Bank of England chief always stayed at the home of Prescott’s partner on his hush-hush trips to New York. Prescott Bush concentrated on the firm’s German activities

Hitler’s Ladder to Power
Adolf Hitler became Chancellor of Germany January 30, 1933, and absolute dictator in March 1933, after two years of expensive and violent lobbying and electioneering. Two affiliates of the Bush-Harriman organization played great parts in this criminal undertaking: Thyssen’s German Steel Trust; and the Hamburg-Amerika Line and several of its executives

The Flick-Harriman partnership was directly supervised by Prescott Bush, President Bush’s father, and by George Walker, President Bush’s grandfather.

On March 19, 1934, Prescott Bush–then director of the German Steel Trust’s Union Banking Corporation–initiated an alert to the absent Averell Harriman about a problem which had developed in the Flick partnership. Bush sent Harriman a clipping from the New York Times of that day, which reported that the Polish government was fighting back against American and German stockholders who controlled “ Poland’s largest industrial unit, the Upper Silesian Coal and Steel Company…. ”

Warrants were issued in December for several directors accused of tax evasions. They were German citizens and they fled. They were replaced by Poles. Herr Flick, regarding this as an attempt to make the company’s board entirely Polish, retaliated by restricting credits until the new Polish directors were unable to pay the workmen regularly. ”

The Times noted that the company’s mines and mills “ employ 25,000 men and account for 45 percent of Poland’s total steel output and 12 percent of her coal production. Two-thirds of the company’s stock is owned by Friedrich Flick, a leading German steel industrialist, and the remainder is owned by interests in the United States. ”

In view of the fact that a great deal of Polish output was being exported to Hitler Germany under depression conditions, the Polish government thought that Prescott Bush, Harriman and their Nazi partners should at least pay full taxes on their Polish holdings. The U.S. and Nazi owners responded with a lockout.

Nazi tanks and bombs “ settled ” this dispute in September, 1939 with the invasion of Poland, beginning World War II. The Nazi army had been equipped by Flick, Harriman, Walker and Bush, with materials essentially stolen from Poland.

In many ways, Bush’s Hamburg-Amerika Line was the pivot for the entire Hitler project

The Schroeder family of bankers was a linchpin for the Nazi activities of Harriman and Prescott Bush, closely tied to their lawyers Allen and John Foster Dulles.

Baron Kurt von Schroeder was co-director of the massive Thyssen-Hu@autte foundry along with Johann Groeninger, Prescott Bush’s New York bank partner. Kurt von Schroeder was treasurer of the support organization for the Nazi Party’s private armies, to which Friedrich Flick contributed. Kurt von Schroeder and Hjalmar Schacht together made the final arrangements for Hitler to enter the government.

Baron Rudolph von Schroeder was vice president and director of the Hamburg-Amerika Line. Long an intimate contact of Averell Harriman’s in Germany, Baron Rudolph sent his grandson Baron Johann Rudolph for a tour of Prescott Bush’s Brown Brothers Harriman offices in New York City in December 1932–on the eve of their Hitler-triumph.

Certain actions taken directly by the Harriman-Bush shipping line in 1932 must be ranked among the gravest acts of treason in this century.

The U.S. embassy in Berlin reported back to Washington that the “ costly election campaigns ” and “ the cost of maintaining a private army of 300,000 to 400,000 men ” had raised questions as to the Nazis’ financial backers. The constitutional government of the German republic moved to defend national freedom by ordering the Nazi Party private armies disbanded. The U.S. embassy reported that the Hamburg-Amerika Line was purchasing and distributing propaganda attacks against the German government, for attempting this last-minute crackdown on Hitler’s forces.

For his part in the Hitler revolution, Prescott Bush was paid a fortune.

This is the legacy he left to his son, President George Bush.

George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography — by Webster G. Tarpley & Anton Chaitkin

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By Chugalug ( – 64.167.88.42) on Tuesday, April 24, 2001 – 07:42 pm:
Race is irrelevant. Race is only a veil. Life is an individual struggle. “The Races” should stop pointing fingers at each other; it is pointless and childish. We all need to take responsibility for our own souls. Despite what those who would control you would have you believe, the personal is NOT political. It’s time to stop jerking off.

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By Damani6 ( – 161.149.50.100) on Tuesday, May 8, 2001 – 07:47 pm:
Hey Whiteboy!

You have no claim to America since you cannot digest the fact that the cement that is the foundation of America is held together by the blood weat and tears of Africans stolen from their country by your forefather or sold into slavery by thier forefather. Your ignorance is full of wind. Let me share some wisdom with you that can change your backward life if you dare try. Since you feel that Africans and Blacks are worthless and have not contributed anything to the society of men, try not using inventions made by blackmen and women. For example:
(1) Try writing without paper. Africans invented and used paper in Timbuktu long before the first Eygptian dynasty. That means you cannot wipe you behind, if you get my point, but that okay, before you kind was introduced to the wonders of the black world, they used leaves or their hands. Nasty!
(2)If you have a car, pray it does not break down. If it does, tell your mechanic not to use a wrench because it was created by a worthless, count-for-nothing blackman (John A. Johnson).
(3) I hope you do not use a clothes dress to store your neatly folded laundry. If you do, throw it way because it was invented by a blackman (John J. Jordan.)
(4) I hope you do not live where it gets cold. If you do you can go back to the backward ways of your people before Musa (a blackman) taugth to make fire, because a blackwoman invented the heating furnace (Alice H. Parker)
(5) Remeber Henry Ford Whiteboy. Well you would not if it were not for J. Gregory. He was the balckman who invented the internal conbustion engine.

I could go on for hours with the inventions of black Americans that would leave your lifestyle in form it was in before the first white person ever laid eyes on a blackman if you dare do without them. As a matter of fact, the first blackman white people every saw was Hannibal who was conquering the whitea–s. Now, this is a rhetorical question so save your ignorant ramblings. If Africans were so backward as you claim, who other than God can claim the providence from which the ideas, concepts and insights to create the wonderful things that you take for granted have come from. Yes, crawl back in your hole and take a stick of dynamite with you when you go. BOOM!

Just because you live in a system that provides previlages to white boys, do not think for a moment that ignorance will get you anywhere. Did you know that there are more white people on welfare than black, receiving greater benefits due to Affirmation Action than blacks. What vaccum did you step out of.

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By kinks_83 ( – 216.196.24.170) on Tuesday, June 26, 2001 – 02:52 am:
I am currently reading the book which sparked this debate, The Destruction of Black Civilization by Chancellor Williams. I personally give the book a lot of praise because it not only answered previous existing questions of our history, but exposed facts which created new ones. For instance, one comment I read claimed there was no real proof of African Civilization and Achievements, however this work chronologically exposes the great and obviously intentional “black out” in European history. Williams catalogues numerous events throughout history of African interactions with Europeans and Asians, and simply the proof is in the pudding. For any White, Black, Arab , Latinos ect. who questions the origin of civilization, the blackness of egypt, the development of the arts and sciences, the beginnings of communication, and the specific events which led to the downfall of our greatness this is definately a must read . So white Boy if you’re looking for proof open the book, and if you want to know why you should teach your kids about kwanzaa open the book, and if you want to kwow why africans in america can’t advance open the book and then read the miseducation of the Negro by Carter G Woodson. Because frankly for us to have been fighting off global attack from all of Asia, Europe, and other prdominantly white civilization for five thousand years(pg.58) we’re doing quite well for ourselves. So open the Book all my brothers and sisters and open your eyes. Because true equality can only be layed on a foundation of truth, and therefore an admission of guilt and reparation must occur before we can begin to mend this two sided world which exist today. For your days are numbered and if we continue to be pushed to civil disobedience to be heard, then the repercussion that will tossed upon the white race will be tradgic, but executed by all means necessary. You all only make up 2% of the population, so how long do you really believe our naivete and righteousness will allow you to keep this up? GLOBAL ASSASSANATIONS. Somebodies gonna pay for all these years of poverty and the rape of our nation.So keep up you white bastards we’ll see who gets the last laugh. If you were smart you call the truce now while some of us still ike you, cause this could get ugly.

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By PABCD ( – 158.252.92.40) on Thursday, September 6, 2001 – 02:57 pm:
As a military brat I have lived all over the world and the one thing that is noticable is that the variations in races blend as the borders have changed over the centuries. With the conquest of one country over the other, back and forth with one inslaving the other , is there really any race that can say that they are pure. I don’t think so. There is no one race better than another, and there is no culture or religion that is better than any other. Just men trying to make themselves feel that they are something more than they are (JUST MEN). The only ones who do have the right to complain is WOMEN. We have been and still are inslaved and tortured just for being born a woman. There is no civilization on this planet who can say that their women have been treated equally to their men.

28 Responses to “A FORUM ON “THE DESTRUCTION OF BLACK CIVILIZATION”BY CHANCELLOR WILLIAMS ON MELANET.COM”

  1. zhia Says:

    To Greg, re; (-24.132.81.212) lengthy response on Sept 8 @ 01:56pm: me tink i luv u… can u rap wit me on da email? can u tell me where ur bro’s r? i need 2 hv a verbal jolt wit a studious male like urself! ur research was huge! Great detail, n observations! me downloaded it 4 me seeds. Jus 1 Q? u don hv 2 hv da A… wha diff does all dat make? (if u don hv an action 2 suit da info…) peace, me new love 1… 1 love 2 u all!

  2. Idetrorce Says:

    very interesting, but I don’t agree with you
    Idetrorce

  3. noha Says:

    I am from Egypt
    being African does not mean you are black
    it means you are from Africa
    It is impossible if all Egypt were black to be like what we see today , right ?
    The truth is that most of the Egyptians on north are white and most Egyptians on south are dark and nearly all of them are black in the very south ( except on large cities where all colors are found ) , so why is that ?
    This is not due to invasion only although Egypt has been invaded by many countries that most of us now don’t know our real origin cause it is not important , we are all now Egyptians .
    I don’t know what is the exact color of Pharons but I am sure they are all from all colors because this is what Egypt always was and will always be , there was never ever Egyptian looks , we are very different in looks and colors and this is good .

  4. Malissa Says:

    i am neither black or white and neither were the ancient egyptians. my father is sioux and darker than most negroes! does that make him of negroe heritage? the answer is no! ancient egyptians were maybe negroes at one time but mixed with many races and cultures! yall are going about like it’s a race war or something and in fact most of the black people(no offence)yall don’t have any evidence or facts but a book prolly written by a black man who wished blacks had more of an interesting history than they had! for god says the words of men aren’t always the truth! so why believe what he writes unless you have actual facts! for if he had all the answers in the book i prolly would have heard about him before this site! it would be all over the tv and internet! yes whites throughout history haven’t been all good but why try to say they took your history and heritage! hell my ancestor’s land has been taken and i’m not complaining. learn to knock that chip called the past off your shoulder!for none of us were alive back then. because nobody can truely take your history and heritage away unless they make it to where you can’t talk and pass down stories! so there are no stories that go with this in africa or anywhere else there are negroes.this only started up this past hundres years. i know my heritage even though the white man took my country they didn’t take my heritage. The statue of King Tut is made of Black African wood. Afrocentrists counter that there are examples of King Tut funerary statues depicting him as “black”. However, artwork with these features is ALWAYS found in a funerary context. It was one of the Egyptian art conventions that rulers posing as funereal divinities were often painted black or green, to mimic decaying corpses or to represent rich, fertile soil.
    Furthermore, archaeologist found statues of king Tut painted with gold, marble white. Obviously he was neither gold nor white marble. Tutankhamen was a Mediterranean with light skin just like modern Egyptians. His great-grandfather and grandmother clearly were, based on their mummies. His mother was Kiya, who is conjectured to be a Mitanni princess. Mitannis were clearly lighter population then typical Egyptians, of the “Levant” type from Syria. The ancient Egyptians were very consistent as to how they painted themselves – dark reddish brown for men, yellow for women. They also recognized and were willing to paint other races with classic racial characteristics of that particular group. Looking at the tomb paintings , the ancient Egyptians recognized that Nubians (i.e., Sudanese) were black, and that Libyans and Syrians were “white” (actually, in this case, a light yellow). Culture characteristics were also carefully recorded. Basically what the ancients were telling the viewer: We aren’t as black as our southern neighbors, nor are we as light as our western/eastern neighbors. We Egyptians are a separate group of people entirely.and can anyone tell me why ramses mummy was found to have red hair? how many negroes do you know with natural red hair? that is mor proff of mixing with other races! egypt is like the ancient america, a nation of many different peoples. and nonody can argue with that! i’m willing to give more arguments! for it’s quite silly to take other peoples history cuz yours was boring and another thing! i’m sick and tired about hearing the slave thing! africans were not the only slaves! i will name some for you now,Every one faced a form of slavery one time or another even Europeans the so called white man

    between 1 million and 1.25 million Europeans were captured by Barbary pirates and sold as slaves in North Africa and Ottoman Empire between the 16th and 19th centuries
    In the Viking era starting c. 793, the Norse raiders often captured and enslaved weaker peoples they encountered.

    They used boats to transfer those slaves
    and nowhere in the bible does it mention the color of the hebrews. i love when they try to say white man is esau. i have an argument for that too. if anybody has read the ancient hebrew text of the bible. here is some information i have found on it. i didn’t originally write this but i will share it with you now,for all those who believe esau to be white!a group of right-wing Christians preaching hate that is rooted in their interpretation of the Bible. These are the men commonly referred to as “the Black Israelites,” the most prominent groups being the 12 Tribes, and the Israelite Church of Universal Practical Knowledge (UPK). These men teach an absurd form of right-wing Christianity that comes off as the Black Nationalist version of the Christian Identity movement.

    Their doctrine, at its most basic level, is a spin on the Bible, where the Israelites are the ancestors of modern day African and Latino Americans. These are the chosen people of God, and the other nations are cursed. The main enemy are the Edomites, whom these groups argue are the people today referred to as “white.” This quick look into their various cults will show the idiocy behind these claims, and expose these alleged “prophets” as being men who are not at all acquainted with the text they claim to follow (i.e. the Bible).

    The claim that the modern day so-called “white man” is Esau is derived from specific interpretions of Obadiah, and other books of the Bible, but rests most strongly on Genesis 25:25. This verse informs us that Esau was “red” at birth, and based on this, the Black Israelite groups conclude that Esau, one of the most hated characters of the Biblical folklore, is the progenitor of caucasians. “The ‘white’ man isn’t really white” they scream. “He’s red!” The blood shows through the skin, due to lack of melanin, and thus they have proven Esau was the first white man.

    This is the crux of their argument, and like many of their claims, it exposes them as complete novices with regard to Hebrew and the Bible. Indeed, in Genesis 25:25, Esau is referred to as “red,” and the word “red” was translated from is the following:

    Of course, the 12 Tribers and the UPKers don’t know Hebrew, so they don’t know this. In fact, they try to down play their inability to speak the original language that their folklore was recorded in by claiming that modern Hebrew is really Yiddish; they have created their own dialect, “Lashawan Kadash,” which is a play on the Hebrew “Lashon Kodesh” (Holy Tongue). Rather than referring to the Hebrew text, they rely solely on the King James translation of the Christian scriptures.

    Regardless, these monolingual bible thumpers shoot themselves in the foot when they claim that Genesis 25:25 is proof that Esau was white. Elsewhere in their rhetoric, they go on to claim that the tribe of Judah of the Biblical folklore was made up of what are now referred to as “African Americans,” or “black” people. Unfortunately, these men don’t realize that one of the kings of Judah is also described in the same way that Esau is described in the aforementioned verse from Genesis.

    As has already been stated, the Hebrew word that “red,” in Genesis 25:25, was translated from is admonee. As any Rabbi will tell you, there is only one other person in the Bible that is described as being admonee (red, ruddy), and that is King David. I will now compare the Hebrew text of 1 Samuel 16:12, and Genesis 25:25.

    Genesis 25:25

    VaYetse harishon ADMONEE khulo, K’aderet se’ar, va’iqro sh’mo Esav.

    “And the first came out RED [admonee], all over like a hairy garment; and they called his name Esau.”

    1 Samuel 16:12

    Va’ishlach vaivi’ehu V’hu ADMONEE im-Y’feh einayim V’tov ro’ee Vayomer YHWH qum M’shachehu ki-zeh hu.

    “And he sent, and brought him in. Now he was RUDDY [admonee], and withal of a beautiful countenance, and goodly to look to. And the LORD said, Arise, anoint him: for this is he.”

    Now, this proves, beyond a doubt, that the same word is used to describe both Esau and David. The 12tribers and the UPKers may attempt to erect a strawman by ridiculing my transliteration, insinuating that I used a “Yiddish pronunciation,” but the text still tells the story. Even if they resort to their “Lashawan Kadash” dialect, both men are described with the same word (in this case, pronounced ahdamawanaya, rather than admonee). David is “ahdamawanaya”, and Esau is “ahdamawanaya” as well. Both the 12tribers and the UPKers have tried to escape this fact by staying only with the KJV translation, saying that David was ruddy, and Esau red, and that these are two different descriptions (they claim “ruddy” means young). However, there is no escaping the Hebrew text.

    With regard to “Lashawan Kadash,” the Black Israelites have created their own dialect, where the only vowels are ‘a’ (as in “raw”) or ‘i’ (as in “high”), the ‘i’ sound being derived from ayin, and all other letters taking the ‘a’ sound. This absurd “Lashawan Kadash” dialect actually hurts the Black Israelites when we consider the name “Adam,” which in Hebrew is written the following way:

    This word, devoid of its vowels, actually appears in the Hebrew text of the TaNaKh on several occasions meaning “red.” In those instances, Hebrew speakers would pronounce it adom, or adum. However, in “Lashawan Kadash” there are no vowels (the pointed text is ignored), and those words have to be pronounced as adam. The first example would be the Hebrew text of Isaiah 63:2. I challenge the Black Israelites to refer to the Hebrew text of Isaiah 63:2, and tell me what word “red” is translated from (in Hebrew, it would be adom, but because of the particular spelling, where the vav is dropped, it is pronounced adam in “Lashawan Kadash”). Here is the Hebrew text:

    Isaiah 63:2

    One final example is in order to put this nonsense to rest. The Freethought Mecca would like to present the Hebrew text of Zechariah 1:8, which, on two occasions, mentions horses that are red. To help our non Hebrew speakers, we would like to show some of the words. The Hebrew word for horse is soos, and it is written as follows:

    Now, on the second line of the text we will present, there will be the words al-soos adom, which means “on a red horse,” and will look like the following:

    Finally, towards the end of the verse, there is a part about red horses, or soosim adumim, which in Hebrew is written as follows:

    That being said, we now present the Hebrew text of Zechariah 1:8, and we would like the Black Israelites to explain why adam is being used as the word for red.

    Now again, UPKers and 12tribers will try and erect a strawman by ridiculing the transliteration of these words, erroneously accusing the Freethought Mecca of speaking Yiddish, and spewing nonsense about their “Lashawan Kadash” dialect. Regardless, in their dialect, “horse” would be sawas, and “on a red horse,” from Zechariah 1:8, would have to be I-la sawas adam. This would mean that adam does in fact mean red, and would not run smoothly with their claim that “red” is a designation for white people. If Esau’s redness means that he was white, then David must also be considered white as well. Any attempt to use a twisted interpretation of the KJV translation of Jeremiah 14:2 to argue otherwise, as many of these types do, would be nothing more than a duplicitous fallacy. If Esau was white, then Adam and David were as well too.

    Personally, we consider the Bible to be nothing more than a self contradicting compilation of goat herder camp-fire stories. Regardless, it does not seem that race is ever mentioned in this compilation with regard to skin color. The 12tribers and UPKers may attempt to argue otherwise, but their claims are weak, and saturated with error. With regard to people being described as “red,” or “ruddy” (admonee), Rashi, Mizrachi, and other Orthodox commentaries have noted that this has nothing to do with actual skin color, rather this is a reference to an aggressive, or even murderous nature.

    It should be noted that we here at the Freethought Mecca are actually quite fond of heterodox Black Nationalist forms of Christianity and Islam (such as the Allah Team, and other five percent nation groups). Christianity and Islam are imperialist religions that have ravaged much of the world, including Africa. Indigenous African culture has essentially been destroyed, and the people have been, for the most part, assimilated. Groups like these are struggling to forge an identity within the confines of a psychological prison built with the bricks of Arabo-Judaic or Judeo-Hellenist mythology. We can appreciate this fact, but an error is still an error, ignorance is still ignorance, and hate is still hate.

  5. narutav Says:

    malis is an moron the whites took everything and thats that .and the crack on our history u moron no sorry.u dont know cause it aint taught.plus if someone was telling the truth about the whites why would it be on the news think

  6. Sherrode McCain Says:

    Ok i see the argument the truth is us blacks do not blame whites for our misfortune. We do blame you for not wanting to believe the brute force that you have used to destroy us. Africa is the meca of civilization “all cultures root began in Africa”, our land is stripped of the minerals that we once had because of the Persians,Europeans SO IT WOULD BE DISASTROUS FOR US TO MOVE BACK ALSO AIDS CAME FROM EUROPEANS AND PERSIANS RAPING OUR WOMEN. Simply because your cultures people hadnt been circumcised and the mucas in your falaces carried diseases to us. Pangea was a continent that seperated and moved away from Africa, the climate changes from continent to continent change your skin color and in order for the Melanin in your skin to remain constant you must be exposed to the sun. Therefore making other races. Arabs were created by Europeans and Asians mating creating (Persians) Arabs and they were not a civilization in Africa until some 600 B.C (they became as dark as us) so yes we built the pyramid and sphinx and yes we were the first established Homosapian Race. It is not just white supremacy(many different races) but the need to flourish with riches and food, and Africa was full of those things until “US AS A WHOLE, (EVEN AFRICANS) ABUSED AND DESTROYED IT”.

  7. ahseeyuh Says:

    Im just wonderinf if any more research has been done to verify or expand on the infomation in the Chancellor’s book. I love reading it, but I wish there was more to go off of then ” Because I say so” As a black woman, Im tempted to take what I read and run with it, But as an embassador (always the token black female) I feel the need to be able to back up my statements with facts that no critic can undermine.

    Anyone??

  8. ahseeyuh Says:

    Also…. I really don’t see why my fellow citizens of the world feel the need to argue in this forum. Those who come here in the name of hate have already made up their minds. Dont let that crab pull you down. Honestly, unless they are truly looking for intelligent debate, I see no point in enteraining ones who hold ignorance so dear.

  9. Sheba Says:

    I find this forum very intriguing. Alot of individuals who came in here, ended up answering their own questions.. Like Malissa, the only way to take away a person’s heritage/culture is to stop them from being able to pass down the sotires of their origin/history. That is exactly what the “white man” did to the “Africans” that were brought to the Americas as slaves. I am part Cherokee, White, and Black so I have the blood of aggressive, philosophical, creative warriors running thru these veins. One thing that I can say is that of course you and other Natives won’t complain, because the white man has “allowed” you a piece of the land that he stole from the ancestors, and “allows” you to function in your own culture, away from his society. He never brain-washed your people, and made it illegal to teach them how to read or write. Well, the hodge-podge of people that are born from African descent, cannot say the same. We will never be equal, we will never have reparations. The reason why “WE” will never make it, is because we have no one to fund us, when Asians, Arabs, etc come to the Americas, they receive funding from Uncle Sam to start businesses in Black neighborhoods.
    This is in no way a means of throwing the blame to anyone, however the day will come when the the lost/last shall be first, and all others will be after.
    I find it odd, that people will find a million reasons why Africans could not be the beginning or cradle of civilization. But in that same fervor, cannot for the life of them come up with one reason why the Africans could have or did these wonderful things. What you all look at is the miserable mess that miseducation, and deculturalization has left instead of enlightenment, and if we had been able to continue our culture within this society.
    The funny thing is there are books that white men wrote about “breaking” a person’s will, so that they will pass this broken, emptiness on to their seed. And it has happened, and continues to happen everyday.
    Now onto the whole Egyptian craze.. Those who know, knows that Upper Kemet (Egypt) is in the region what we would call “southern”, which is close to Nubia (the Sudan), now the original Egyptians were of African descent, yes they were invaded more times than we will ever know, and over hundreds of years results in the Arab Egyptians we see now. Just like in America we (descendants of our African fore-fathers) are not as dark as our ancestors, because yes, we too have been mongrelized (mixed). Rameses’ hair can be blonde for all I care, being Albino does not erase your African/Black heritage. There is a such thing called dye, or he may have naturally been born with red hair, and yes I know quite a few black people who were born with reddish hair (and my aunt is one of them) we call her “Red-head”. One thing no one can deny is DNA.
    We can sit here and go back and forth all day. At the end of the day, all we can do is continue to educate ourselves, because the time is coming where we will have to be about our business, and quit talking about it.
    Brothers & Sisters- Know Thy self and to Maat (Truth, Order, Balance) be true.

  10. goya Says:

    Hello all interested folks, first of all to white boy, and his cousins, your race is what? What race is white? You are unaware of who you are, and where you came from. Three fourths or more of the worlds population are people of color,( hue- mans) and you belong to a race that is not pure, devoid of color and is recessive. You and your cousins are in a group of people are fastly becoming extinct. Yet no government agency has put you on the endangered species list. All over the worl you are the minority, and getting smaller, but many of you will deny your other blood. You don’t even know what you are. I am not afro-american, what is that? an Afro is a hair style, I am a Black woman, born and raised in America. I am amongst the most beautiful of Gods creations. And there is a reason that I exist. My DNA is timeless, and can be traced back to the beginnings of the earth. My people were on this earth eons before the so called white race came into existence. You are a defect, both physically , and mentally. Your kind has to rearrange nature so that you can fit in. You are not a natural man. Everything about you is fake, put together altered and added on. The Black race has been stymied, crippled, and blocked from its natural place in this world, not so much because of ignorance,( or by white boy types, you have no power over anthing) but out of envy, and fear. You are jealous, and afraid of our Blackness , and angry about your fear. And I might ad for good reason. Some of your scholars know the truth, and keep the ones of you who are ignorant in the dark. If Y’all could be Black Ya’ll would in a heartbeat.

    • Tury Says:

      Remind him that Black is colour and white is colourless and he’s an albino! And the hatred he has for blacks is bse of what they have that he lacks!

    • Tury Says:

      Tbh, the hatred u have for blacks shows that you lack alot that you will never get! Talk of milanine that u lacked to become an albino and alot more! But u are forgiven bse thats what u can do to show that u are not sertified with the little u have u racist!

  11. Toby Says:

    “You are jealous, and afraid of our Blackness , and angry about your fear. And I might ad for good reason. Some of your scholars know the truth, and keep the ones of you who are ignorant in the dark. If Y’all could be Black Ya’ll would in a heartbeat.”

    Oh, please. your statement is almost as inane as the one a few posts up which claims that AIDS is the result of Persians and Europeans raping African women. Just like slavery and the Tsetse fly AIDS is a product of Africa.

  12. feliciano Says:

    I hate when so called native american comes on here and talks smack to black ppl. black people are our brothers and sisters. you’re quoting a bible that was force upon us by whites who made us slaves after killing hundreds of million of our people. now we falling into whole divide and conquer still. You need to go look up history between africans and native Americans, especially the ones who defeated u.s. military armies countless of times. u need to look up how we would help blacks in underground railroad, how much we love ’em, and would care for ’em. long live our ppl, long live the indigenous revolution. wake up from white man’s lies. Egyptians are black. anyone who studies the history will figure this out easily. you have to be blind, dumb, and deaf not to see it. we need to stand with the black ppl, ’cause god knows, one day they gonna say native americans weren’t red men. they gonna say we were white. it be a lie just like any other lie whites have come up. I am Native American. If you dad is darker than black. THEN HE IS BLACK. to bad he didn’t teach you how to be proud of it. I am Apache and Yaqui. I am very proud of it. i am also light skin ’cause my spanish side. saddest thing is, us lighter skin native americans have more love in our hearts than you who wishes to be white. I guess I am ancestor who was killed in battle while u sold us out.

  13. feliciano Says:

    “Oh, please. your statement is almost as inane as the one a few posts up which claims that AIDS is the result of Persians and Europeans raping African women. Just like slavery and the Tsetse fly AIDS is a product of Africa”

    AIDs is man made disease made by white ppl, just like cancer that is today made disease ’cause of all the pollution we put in our body and world. they did a study, no egyptian had cancer. none. we made cancer. we are the disease. it happened because white ppl are killing us.

  14. Burbery Says:

    (1. We know that the Egyptians were not caucasion
    or “white”…thats been established. But were
    they….ARAB? Thats what the people look like
    there now anyways. So they weren’t white or black
    but ARAB. But the Arabs invaded Africa just like
    the Europeans did didn’t they.
    Arabs even started the invasion (i think) and
    were MAJOR holders in the intercontinental slave
    trade weren’t they!?!?! )

    Whahah what a nonsense ancient egyptians weren’t Arabs nor were they black(eventhough they have a lot of negroid admix nowadays;but so have Palestenians and Yemenites). Look sweety, have you ever heard about Copts? They are the Christian offspring of the Ancient Egyptians..Ancient egyptians had lots of black slaves, but for all I know there used to be a white berber Pharao Ramses II with red hair..but he was libyan I believe. Anyway my point is Pharaos aren’t described as black people but most of them are tanned like nowadays egyptians and Arabs

    (2.There is a huge dessert that currently
    separates North and South Africa. Its called the
    Sahara. Eurocentric scholars have used the desert
    as a means of saying that the Egyptians were a
    separate people and culture from the rest of
    Africa. “Sub-Saharan” is the term that they use i
    believe.

    But evidence has been found that the Sahara was
    once rich with plant life and water making it
    perfectly inhabitable for people to inhabit it.
    And by doing so connecting the imaginary barrier
    between Egypt and the rest of Africa.

    So was the Sahara ALWAYS a desert? And how did it
    become a desert in the first place?… )

    Whats your point?? The only other people that went to egypt were the berbers from the Maghreb that ruled over libya and egypt for a while.

    Ow and I believe you claimed something about Moors; for your information;moors existed of: arabized Sanhaja,Arabs, Zenata(these are the people that ruled over Portugal/ Spain;but they lost it because of the disagreements between these 3.
    Sanhaja people live nowadays in the Sahara and speak arabic,they have a reasonable share of negroid influence just like Egyptians and other Saharians(I believe they are called Sahraouis), Arabs have negroid influence ofcourse(Palestine 15%, Yemen/South-Arabia even more! But this doesn’t make them explicit black). Zenatas are the least Negroid influenced;the moorish leader Taric ibn Zayed was a Blond and WHite Zenata berber from north-West algeria. Those Northern berbers have about 2% negroid admix(which is negligible:even in Europe they have little amounts of Sub Saharian addmix)
    , they are even lighter than Arabs eventhough they are originally from Africa. So how would you explain all these Northern berbers, if all africans were black..??

    Ow and it’s a universal fact that black africans didn’t establish anything, and still, not even civillized. I’m sorry but the only Africans that achieved anything were North-Africans(look at the Moors/Egyptians). Even East-Africans(they have often Middle-easter addmix) achieved more than ”pure black”Africans; I mean east-africa is at least civilized

  15. artful1 4rmzim Says:

    on black civilization: Great Zimbabwe
    I am from Zimbabwe which means ‘great house of stone’. I am shocked that none of you spoke of the Great Zimbabwe. Name for my country came from these ruins in a province & town called masvingo where there are ruins of a black civilization that built walls 5 meters high without any mortar!!!

    The stones they used were cut in a rectangular shape & they just piled them with architectual genius one on top of the other for 5 meters.

    Now the white settlers who came tried to discredit the black man for this astounding project they brought their archaeologists who tried 2 give credit & 2 the likes of the biblical queen sheba, the portugese etc
    They knew the truth it was a black mans achievement & they just cldnt swallow it!! Here’s a quote from wikipedia.
    Paul Sinclair, interviewed for None But Ourselves: ”I was the archaeologist stationed at Great
    Zimbabwe. I was told by the then-
    director of the Museums and Monuments
    organisation to be extremely careful
    about talking to the press about the
    origins of the [Great] Zimbabwe state. I was told that the museum service was in
    a difficult situation, that the government
    was pressurising them to withhold the
    correct information. Censorship of
    guidebooks, museum displays, school
    textbooks, radio programmes, newspapers and films was a daily
    occurrence. Once a member of the
    Museum Board of Trustees threatened
    me with losing my job if I said publicly
    that blacks had built Zimbabwe. He said it
    was okay to say the yellow people had built it, but I wasn’t allowed to mention
    radio carbon dates… It was the first time
    since Germany in the thirties that
    archaeology has been so directly
    censored.”

  16. Joe Wilson Says:

    I’m a little confuse. If the Ancient Egyptians where white. How come they painted themselve black or of a darker color.

    If Ancient Egypt where white–how come the images,painting,artifacts and statue showing them with dark skins,big thick lips,big flat noses and big ears of those of a negroid images.

    Your lies about a european Ancient Egypt and they not being blacks are now being revealed.

    Please don’t respond back to me. I don’t argue with stupid people.

    I don’t need a racist to tell me I’m a racist. You can take your white, euroasian or abrabic idealogy about Ancient Egyptians and your so call white egypt and shove it down your and your ancestors whatever behind.

    Ancient Egypt was black–get over it. Please don’t respond back to me because I don’t argue with stupid people.

  17. Marco Borg Says:

    I can understand African Americans’ yearning for “black pride”, the US being tsunamid by waves of self-assertiveness, self-confidence, role modellling, relativism and non-relativism, judgementalism and non-judgementalism etc, but fabricating history, through playing around on the Internet, picking up texts and picures as “proof” is stupid and dangerous.

    In Europe we are familiar with Egyptians, Israelis, Moors (North africans) etc., so all these myths created on “black-centric” sites are perplexing. Noth Africa and Egypt is only half an hour’s flight from many European countries, and most of us have been to some of these countries. Egypt adjoins Israel, the Mediterranean Sea and Libya.

    We never thought that Egyptians were Europeans but they certainly weren’t “black”. And no idiot would think that the “blacks” were killed and replaced by “Arabs” One wouldn’t want to settle in the densely populated extremely narrow strip along the Nile or the Mediterranean Nile Delta when there are vaster, less densely-populated and much greener areas not too far from there. So that the idea of “Arabs” killing-off the Egyptians and taking their land is not even logical. Egyptians are by and large the same people they always were. One can see it in the photo-clarity of the Ancient Egyptian portraits of Fayum
    when they discarded symbolism in favour of realism in their portraists

    If one wanted to learn about Egyptology the logical answer would be to speak with a knowledgable Coptic priest or historian (some Copts still speak the Coptic Ancient Egyptian language) or an Egyptian Egyptologist not an American surfer who has never been to Egypt and who doesn’t speak the Egyptian languages past or present.

    A slightly annoyed Zawi Hawass, recognised as the most learned Egyptian Egyptologist declared that ” Egyptians are not Arabs and are not Africans, despite the fact that Egypt is in the land we today call Africa” and “Tutankhamun was not ‘black’ and the portrayal of Ancient Egypt as ‘black’ has no element of truth in it.

    As for the other “black civilizations” classifying the Moorish one as “black” is the most perverse of all. I’ve been to the Moorish villages in Algeria and Morocco. They speak the Moorish (Amazigh language). About half of them seem to have green eyes. To American blacks, but not to Europeans, they would be decidedly “white”. In the past they were conquered (but not replaced) by Arabs and became Muslims. They ventured south converted some Africans and enslaved many others, overwhelmingly women. You can see what the Moors look like by typing “Amazigh” on “YouTube”

    Hebrews, Greek, Minoan, Sumerian civilisations “black”? What next? Germans black?

    As for “melanin” making you strong, it manifestly doesn’t judging by the geat rates in African countries (eg average life-span in Nigeria 47 years according to Wiki quoting Nigerian official stats.) And amazingly the only First World standard of living in the tropical areas is Singapore, a little resourceless piece of land inhabited mostly by Chinese transplanted from China. Food for thought.

    If one wants to know about ancient civilizations, one should read the amazing research by the historians’ historian, the great Arnold Toynbee. He identified 27 great civilizations which have shapen the world. Not one is African.

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  23. Logosu Says:

    How can we expect the prisoner to give us the key to the prison gate? Marco, you can’t tell us the truth. No, never! Things started going wrong long in Babylon when your race came in from the Caucasian mountains. Some of these we know by your actions.

  24. Logosu Says:

    Facts from oral tradition yet to be made public tells it that the confusers started claiming our history after the confusion. We have seen this in the case of Keme and other Old Black Kingdoms that has been wrestled from the Blacks shamelessly!!!

  25. Natlia Says:

    feliciano thank you for backing us blacks. Because so many native american like malissa is so blind by the White mans lies that their will believe lies told about her own people. The world is awakening we blacks will keep fighting we know the truth. Soon the white man will start taking over natives of the americas history maybe the mayans were white because only white people can creat such a wonderful history ect.I do not care if i have to die so my son who is mixed with white can learn the truth and lies told my his white side. I do not believe anything that comes from white people anymore so many lies and AIDS was created for Natives also and look at Canada how the natives are treated and look down upon.

  26. Conrad Waninger Says:

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