from: melanet.com
1-800-788-CLEGG
A MESSAGE FROM THE MODERATOR
The Clegg Series site was established in December of 1996 to provide an opportunity for people of African descent and others to present uncensored information about Black History and culture. Our intention was to create a forum for a broad, provocative and respectful exchange of ideas.
Unfortunately, over the past month the entries into our popular guestbook have degenerated into rude, vulgar and racist name-calling. While we certainly encourage controversy, we don’t believe that personal or racial insults are appropriate. Let us continue our dialogue on a constructive level.
During the existence of our site, the major point of contention has been whether the Ancient Egyptians were Black Africans. It is quite understandable that this issue would stir up heated passions. For nearly two hundred years now, White scholars have removed Black people from Egypt, Egypt from Africa and Africa from world history. They have always taught that Egypt is in the Near East, the Middle East, the Mediterranean and even the Fertile Crescent. They have never informed the world that Egypt is and always has been on the Continent of Africa.
While White publishers controlled everything written and taught about Africa – – and often published books stating that the Ancient Egyptians were White – – no one, except Black people, complained. However, since Black people began publishing their own work and using the internet to tell our story, suddenly everyone is interested in setting Black people straight by insisting that the Ancient Egyptians were neither Black nor white, but Arabs, like the Arabs of today.
We disagree. Arabs invaded Egypt in the 7th Century AD, long after Ancient Egyptian civilization had declined and faded away. Arabs have no more connection to Ancient Egypt than Europeans have to Ancient America.
Many have argued that, even if the Ancient Egyptians were Black Africans, modern African Americans, who lay claim to Egyptian civilization, are not akin to them because their ancestors were West Africans. This reflects a lack of knowledge about African history. Virtually all West African people trace their ancestry to the northeast and ultimately to the Nile Valley. A number of Black scholars have revealed evidence of the ancient migratory trail from the Nile across the continent to West Africa and the Atlantic Ocean. Therefore, modern African Americans do indeed have a direct link to the Ancient Egyptian people.
We understand that most White people and Arabs have great difficulty imagining Black Africans to have laid the foundation of civilization. We sincerely regret that Western racist propaganda has so narrowed their worldview. But, at this site we deal with evidence – – not propaganda, not passion, not preconceived notions or white supremacy.
In our bi-monthly MA’AT newsletter, we present evidence that the main-stream media will not touch, because it would destroy racist myths that have been embraced as inviolable truths by millions around the world. If you find this site to be at variance with your sacred belief system, please avoid visiting us. After all contrary opinions prevail in most other forums. Why not express your views on those sites where you may comfortably reassure people of like mind?
In the meantime, for those of you who chose to study, evaluate and critique the Africentric perspective on the origin of the Ancient Egyptians, we invite you to visit the February, 1997 issue of MA’AT. This monumental document presents a substantial body of evidence that conventional scholars, both Arab and European, choose to ignore.
Many Black scholars have presented the Africentric view on the “race” of the Ancient Egyptians. Their research has triggered a reevaluation of certain assumptions. For example, most Black Africans do not have thick lips and broad noses. There are four distinct Black African physical types. All were part of the Ancient Egyptian population. Secondly Ancient Egyptian drawings were largely conventional. This means that they clearly had a symbolic meaning that was not true to form. For example, the traditional reddish brown color used to portray all men (no matter what their true skin tone) may have represented the African “blood of life” concept. For religious purposes, Black Africans have painted their bodies red or reddish brown from time immemorial.
Therefore, one should not reach hard and fast conclusions about Egyptian ethnicity based on the color used in the tomb and pyramid drawings. Furthermore, even if the colors are accurate depictions of the people, a number of indigenous, unmixed Africans, like the Pygmies, have reddish brown skin tone. Yet no one would deny that these are “Black” African people. In light of this, if the Ancient Egyptians were indeed of reddish brown skin color, they were of the same color as modern Pygmies.
As many writers in the guestbook have attempted to explain, the original Black Egyptians were mixed with invading Libyans, Persians, Greeks, Romans, Turks, Arabs and Western Europeans. This explains the genetic status of the modern Egyptian, who does not resemble his Black African forebears.
To truly determine the Ancient Egyptian “race,” one must consider the full range of linguistic cultural, anatomical, archaeological and genetic evidence. One recent, nonblack scholar, Richard Poe (“Black Spark: White Fire: Did African Explorers Civilize Ancient Europe”) (Prima Publishing, Rocklin, CA), has done just that and has reached the following conclusion: “Were the Egyptians black? That is entirely up to up to you. But were they biologically African? It would seem that they were.”
We, of course, believe that the Ancient Egyptians were Black Africans and the following is a synopsis of some of the evidence that supports our view:
Evidence from Physical Anthropology
The skeletons and skulls of the Ancient Egyptians clearly reflect that they were a Negroid people with features very similar to those of modern Black Nubians and other people of the Upper Nile and of East Africa.
Melanin Dosage Test
Egyptologist Cheikh Anta Diop invented a method for determining the level of melanin in the skin of human beings. When conducted on Egyptian mummies in the Museum of Man in Paris, this test indicated that these remains were of Black people.
Osteological Evidence
“Lepsius canon,” which distinguishes the bodily proportions of various racial groups categories the “ideal Egyptian” as “short-armed and of Negroid or Negrito physical type.”
Evidence From Blood Types
Diop notes that even after hundreds of years of inter-mixture with foreign invaders, the blood type of modern Egyptians is the “same group B as the populations of western Africa on the Atlantic seaboard and not the A2 Group characteristic of the white race prior to any crossbreeding.”
The Egyptians as They Saw Themselves
“The Egyptians had only one term to designate themselves =kmt= the negroes (literally). This is the strongest term existing in the Pharaonic tongue to indicate blackness; it is accordingly written with a hieroglyph representing a length of wood charred at the end and not crocodile scales,” singular. ‘Kmt’ from the adjective =kmt= black; it therefore means strictly negroes or at the very least black men. The term is a collective noun which thus described the whole people of pharaonic Egypt as a black people.”
Divine Epithets
Diop demonstrates that “black or negro” is the divine epithet invariably used for the chief beneficent Gods of Egypt, while the evil spirits were depicted as red.
Evidence From the Bible
The Bible states that “…[t]he sons of Ham [were] Cush and Mizraim [i.e. Egypt], and Phut, and Canaan. And the sons of Cush; Seba, and Havilah, and Sabtah, and Raamah and Sabtechah.” According to Biblical tradition, Ham, of course, was the father of the Black race. “Generally speaking all semitic tradition (Jewish and Arab) class ancient Egypt with the countries of the black.”
Cultural unity of Egypt With The Rest of Africa
Through a study of circumcision and totemism, Diop gives detailed data showing cultural unity between Egypt and the rest of Africa.
Linguistic Unity With Southern and Western Africa
In a detailed study of languages, Diop clearly demonstrates that Ancient Egyptian, modern Coptic of Egypt and Walaf of West Africa are related, with the latter two having their origin in the former.
Testimony of Classical Greek and Roman Authors
Virtually all of the early Latin eyewitnesses described the Ancient Egyptians as Black skinned with wooly hair.
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NOTICE TO OUR GUESTS
Please be advised that, since Saturday, November 6, 1999, the guestbook at The Clegg Series has not been open for comment. We are making adjustments on the site which should be completed by Thursday, November 11. Until that time, feel free to read the recent entries as well as those in the archives. We look forward to resuming receipt of your entries after our project is completed.
Legrand H. Clegg, Editor and Publisher, MA’AT newsletter
Age: r, USA – Tuesday, November 09, 1999 at 08:18:49 (EST)
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our brothers and sisters…. LET GET IT OVER NOW!!!!! DON’T FIGHTINH YOUR OWN BROTHERS AND SISTERS OF AMERICA ONLY.. IF YOU WERE STRANGERS IN A LAND AMERICA. YOU ARE STILL STRANGER AND I AM STRANGER IN THIS AMERICAN LANDS..BECAUSE WE WERE THE CHILDREN OF HEBREW SLAVES CAME INTO THIS NORTH AMERICA FOR SLAVE.. WE ARE THE SAME STRANGERS TO GET TOGETHER…. JUST JUST LET THEM GO AND FORGET ABOUT THEM WHO THE ENEMY UNTO US. THEY KNEW THAT YOU AND ME ARE THE SLAVES OF THE MOST HIGH GOD AND THEY KNEW THAT THERE IS A ONLY PROPHET IN AMERICA HERE TO GLORY OVER THIS WORLD… WHY YOU FORGETTEN ABOUT US AND LOOKING ON EGYPT.. YOU {THE BLACKS} KNOW THAT YOU AND OUR WERE SLAVES IN EGYPT THE HOUSE OF BONDAGE … WE REALLY NEEED YOU OUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN THIS BLACK NATION ONLY WHO WERE SLAVES IN AMERICA… YOU JUST FIGHT AGAINST WHITE WHO ENEMIES US FOR OUR THE BLACK NATION COULD BE FREE FROM THIS EMEMIES OF THE BLACK NATION … LET FORGET THIS NOW AND LET IT GO FOR OUR SAKE .. JUST JION WITH OUR THE BLACK NATION ….. LIKE WE BUILDING THIS RE- BLACK NATION JUST ALIKE BUILDING OUR TEMPLE THAT WHITE COULDN’T AGAINIST US.. LET US CREATE THIS THE NEW BLACK NATION IN OUR OWN IMAGE THEIR SPIRIT. THIS WILL BE COME SOON TO BORN A NEW BABY TO BLACK NATION .. DONT WORRY ABOUT EGYPT AND LET THEM [ WHITE OR HISPANICS] TO TAKE CARE OF CRAPS ABOUT EGYPT …. GOD GIFTED YOU AND OUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS BY BIBLE WORD IN YOUR MIND …. BECAUSE YOU AND YOUR FOREFATHERS WERE SLAVES FOR A THOUSAND YEARS. AND YOU KNEW THAT WE ARE THE ONLY NATION THIS AMERICA HERE UNLIKE OTHER NATION IN WORLD.. LET COME AND JOIN WITH US TO CREATE THIS NEW NAME AND THE SIGN OF BLACK NATION OF GOD WILL NOT SCATTER OVER THIS COUNTRY [AMERICA]LIKE IN GENESIS 11:1-9… LET GO AND FORGET ABOUT THEM … THINKING OF US AND OUR THE BUILDING NATION FOR BLACK COMMUNITY IN NORTH AMERICA LIKE THE RE-RISE OF THE BLACK MESSIAH LIGHT TO WORLD IN THE END OF ALMIGHTY GOD. AMEN PRIASE THE LORD GOD OF ISRAEL’S RIGHT HAND ON OUR HEAD SEPARATE FROM THEM CALLED LIES AND ENEMIES….. I AM NOT GOING TO SPEAK TO THE WORLD BUT GOD COMMANDED ME TO SAYING TO OUR OWN BROTHERS AND SISTERS OF THE ONLY NATION SLAVE IN AMERICA….. JUST GET IT OVER NOW ….. MY FRIEND… I AM PROUD AN ANCERTORS OF SLAVES CAME FROM THE ANCIENT NATION ISRAEL THIS OUR ETERNAL LIFETIME! AMEN …
the Night Prophet
Jer-USA-lem the Heavenly city of the America, CA USA – Saturday, November 06, 1999 at 05:57:54 (EST)
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Dear Bryan, You and so many white people are insecure because of your genetically recessive albino mutant status. Everyone knows that in the animal kingdom albino rabbits, tigers, lions, monkeys, mice, etc. are inferior to the original stock. Just as your forefathers who lynched black men and then took their penises home with them (to eat them, I presume, so they could pretend that they were REAL men), you feel terrified by the very thought of black African majesty. “GET OVER IT!!!” As Mr. Clegg pointed out in one of the old News letters, black people are the genetically dominant parents of the human family. They laid down the foundation of civilization all over the world (for example you mentioned China, in China the earliest Shang Dynasties were black and they have found pyramids in China associated with them). Also, you claim that Chinese civilization may be the oldest in the world, but new information shows that the black Sphinx of Egypt may be 12,000 years old. Now try to beat that! White people do not represent evolution, they represent devolution. You say that black people are ape-like. Apes have thin lips, flat bottoms and hairy bodies. That sounds white to me. Also, you claim that the Egyptians referred to the people of Kush as wretched. Why don’t you study your own European history? The Greeks, Romans and other Europeans all referred to Western Europeans and Nordics (who now claim to be the ancestors of the Greeks and Romans) to have been wild, barbaric savages. Does this mean to you that since the Greeks and Romans hated Northern Europeans, that the Southern Europeans and Northern Europeans were different races. Get it through your thick skull that Africa was and always has been the land of the blacks. The Egyptians and the people of Kush may have been bitter enemies, as you say, but they were also of the same racial group. Why don’t you stop insulting black people, take your racist butt to another site, and get a life?
Ramses The Black
Age: 42, USA – Saturday, November 06, 1999 at 01:14:48 (EST)
——————————————————————————- OUR MISSION IS TO EDUCATE BLACK PEOPLE. Part of our education must be to free ourselves of the false paradigms and self-serving Eurocentric constraints that even we have fallen victim to. For example, most indigenous people do not view history in the linear fashion that Europeans do. The Western view is that primitive Blacks evolved in Africa, civilization emerged in the Mediterranean and finally, following the age of Enlightenment and Imperialism, we have reached the last word in human achievement with our modern bombs, toothpaste and pornography. In Africa, Asia, Australia, the New World, etc., people of color view the world as having experienced several great ages of cultural emergence, evolution, maturity and destruction. For example, according to Maya tradition, the Fourth Age or Sun was destroyed by a great flood and the current, Fifth Age, will end, perhaps by cataclysmic earthquakes, on December 23, 2012. Virtually all indigenous people insist that there was a very great Golden Age that existed on the earth thousands of years ago and that this age was destroyed, as the Maya tradition holds, by a great flood. Many also insist that this age was far more technologically advanced than the world is today. Western scholars, as a whole, reject all of this and suppress, distort or ignore any and all evidence that confirms it. We believe that the reason for their myopia is because they do not want the people of the planet to know that human beings have exceeded the current so-called pinnacle of civilization in the past. Nevertheless, there are some White authorities who have broken ranks with tradition. They include Graham Hancock, Richard Hoagland, Colin Wilson, Zecharia Sitchin, Rand and Rose Flem-Ath, Robert Schoch and others. If one studies the history of this planet and closely observes its people, you will see the widespread presence of Blacks. The Grimaldis of prehistoric Europe, the Elamites and Chaldeans of Western Asia, the Davidians of India, the Australoids of Southern China, Southeast Asia and Australia and the variety of pre-Columbia Blacks, such as the Olmecs, who occupied the New World in antiquity. We believe that there was indeed a great flood in antiquity and that the world it destroyed was a vast Black empire that had reached extraordinary technological heights worldwide. Evidence of these people, their culture and achievements may be found in the Journals of African Civilization published over the past 20 years by Professor Ivan Van Sertima at Rutger University. Another point, which is gradually gaining ground today, is the likelihood that ancient people were advanced enough to engage in extraterrestrial or space travel. This may sound fantastic, but it is not. As NASA knows, may ancient people have left records of flying machines and numerous people also have traditions of extraterrestrial origins. Our interest in this was kindled by a tradition of the Hopi Indians that during the Third World or Sun their people visited the Moon. Investigating the possibility that ancient people may have engaged in space travel, we found that Soviet Scientists take this issue very seriously and that some Western authorities have documented it. (See “We Discovered Alien Bases On The Moon,” by Fred Steckling, 1981). It appears that obelisks and other monuments have been found on the Moon and that they are mathematically synchronized with the monuments on the Gizen plateau in Egypt. The following article, which sheds light on this subject, was published in the April, 1998 issue of the MA’AT newsletter. Before you shrug your shoulders and walk away, please read this information so that you will see the lengths to which Western scientists will go to suppress BLACK HISTORY-even when such knowledge would be of immeasurable benefit to the human race. Suppression of this and other startling evidence allows racists to gather at our site and smugly prate about their alleged superiority. Our MA’AT readership is comprised of a highly educated, well read, open minded, conscious group of truth seekers. Bearing this in mind, we carefully investigate information on Black history and culture that we think will be of interest to our subscribers. We are keenly aware that the Western academic, scientific and media establishments have consciously suppressed, distorted or ignored the true history of African people and their descendants in the diaspora. So much so that revelations of today, which were widely known and acknowledged in antiquity, are often dismissed as exaggerations, tall tales and “feel good history.” In other words, the Black truths of yesteryear have been swept away by the White lies of today; and the latter are so entrenched, ubiquitous and respected that, in the modern world, TRUTH must prove itself to an often skeptical and even hostile public. Hence, to a world accustomed to viewing African people as genetically inferior, steeped in squalor, starvation and internecine warfare, and light years behind the march of civilization — the ancient Egyptians could not have been Black, Africans did not sail to the New World thousands of years before Columbus and the medieval Blackamoors, who civilized Western Europe, were “not Negroes.” Well, if the skeptics have felt that we have been brash in resurrecting the ancient tradition of the Black origin of civilization, this issue of MA’AT will give them even greater cause for astonishment and disbelief. In light of NASA’s recent effort to cover-up evidence of the African face on Mars (in spite of a barrage of calls, letters and protests from around the world challenging their conclusions) and their apparent ignoring of other monuments on the Red Planet, we believe that it is time to introduce a new dimension of Black history to our readership. Mounting geological, archaeological, astronomical, anthropological and testimonial evidence indicates that a very great civilization flourished on this planet as late as twelve thousand years ago, and was destroyed by a cataclysmic event, universally referred to as “The Flood,” between 11,000 and 9,000 B.C.3 Furthermore, compelling data suggest that this civilization was Black, centered in Upper Egypt and may indeed have been interplanetary in its scope and influence.4 The foregoing theory, in one form or another, has garnered the support of a broad cross-section of scientists, scholars and other authorities. In this issue of MA’AT, we shed further light on this view by presenting startling evidence, long suppressed in this country by NASA, of what appear to be very ancient man-made structures on the moon! In the August issue of MA’AT, we revealed that a growing number of professionals in physics, engineering, cartography, mathematics, systems science, anthropology, architecture, art, history, theology and other fields have done massive research and published thought-provoking articles and books on what appear to be pyramids, a sphinx (“the face”) and other structures on Mars. Since the August issue of MA’AT, a new book, “The Case For The Face” A compilation of papers by a number of scientists, has been published on the Martian face.5 We now know that Mars is not the only celestial body that appears to have evidence of “man-made” structures. The Moon does too. What’s more, scientists in the former Soviet Union first published this information in the 1960’s and it was a hot topic of discussion on college and university campuses in their country at the time. While the Soviets revealed the discoveries, NASA also photographed them but refused to publicize their findings. Hence, even today, over thirty years later, NASA is mute about the apparently unnatural structures on the moon. Fortunately, there are two books that provide photographs of these extraordinary structures on the Moon (See drawings at our website) and give some insight as to their discovery, location and dimensions. David H. Childless, Extraterrestrial Archaeology: Incredible Proof We Are Not Alone, Stelle, Illinois, Adventures Unlimited Press, 1994. Sheila Ostrander and Lynn Schroeder, Psychic Discoveries, New York, Marlowe & Company, 1997. The publisher of “Psychic Discoveries” has granted MA’AT permission to reprint an excerpt from the book in this issue of the newsletter. We would highly recommend that our subscribers obtain Psychic Discoveries, which is an updated edition of Psychic Discoveries Behind The Iron Curtain, first published in 1970. This extraordinary book is promoted as “The Iron Curtain Lifted — all new revelations of long suppressed, explosive secrets and discoveries from Prague to Moscow to Siberia.” The revelations in Psychic Discoveries range from medical breakthroughs, superlearning programs and mind control techniques to “Eyeless sight,” Kirlian photography and time machines. Ostrander, Schroeder and other scholars are urging us to view history from a broader, more conventional perspective, just as our ancestors did before the rise, spread and triumph of Western thought. Author William Fix provides a succinct recapitulation of the traditional view of world history: “The legends of humanity the world over are remarkably consistent in describing the oldest peoples and nations as having what seemed godlike powers. Consistently we hear of vanished nations and gods who could travel and build at will, who lived in another age of the earth terminated by disaster, and who set cultural patterns that endured for thousands of years. Long con- sidered by western anthropologists as the fantasies of children, the substance of the ancient legends has been increasingly supported by discoveries in many fields.4” Is it possible that a very advanced, worldwide, antediluvian civilization, centered in Upper Egypt and Nubia, sent astronauts to the moon? Increasing evidence suggests that such voyages did take place in remote antiquity. The following excerpt from Psychic Discoveries lends credence to this theory. Footnotes 1 Sheila Ostrander and Lynn Schroeder, Psychic Discoveries, Incredible Proof We Are Not Alone, New York, Marlowe & Company, 1997, Illus. 25 (caption). 2 David H. Childless, Extraterrestrial Archaeology: Incredible Proof We Are Not Alone, Stelle, Illinois, Adventures Unlimited Press, 1994, p. 33. 3 D.S. Allan & J.B. Delair, Cataclysm: Compelling Evidence of a Cosmic Catastrophe in 9500 B.C., Santa Fe, New Mexico, 1997. Paul LaViolette, Earth Under Fire: Humanity’s Survival of the Apocalypse, Schenectady, New York, 1997. 4William R. Fix, Pyramid Odyssey, Urbanna, Virginia, Mercury Media, Inc. 1984. The Search For Lost Origins, edited by Atlantis Rising, Livingston, Mt. Atlantic Rising Books, 1996. (Special attention should be devoted to parts two, three and six of the book). 5 We do not yet have information regarding the publisher of this book; however, specifics regarding this may be obtained by calling 1-800-228-8381. 6 Fix, Op. cit., p. 212. ——————————————————– Excerpted From: Psychic Discoveries by Sheila Ostrander and Lynn Schroeder (Marlowe & Company: New York, 1997) http://www. superlearning.com WHO ELSE WENT TO THE MOON? “There’s something very odd on the moon. Russia’s Luna 9 first photographed what seemed to be artificially-made structures. America’s Orbiter 2 photographed them too. In Russia, space engineer Dr. Abramov gave us pictures and a complex mathematical analysis of these bizarre ‘ruins.’ He thought they were of startling importance. Today, new archaeological and scientific discoveries make these egnimatic? photos even more compelling. To check their authenticity we consulted our friend, Dr. Ivan Sanderson, UFO expert, former British intelligence officer, and science editor of Argosy. Sanderson’s space-agency sources confirmed the photos were genuine. (Only later did we discover that NASA had classified hundreds of lunar photos of certain locations and refuses to release them to this day.) The photos taken by Orbiter 2 on November 20, 1966, over the moon’s Sea of Tranquility show eight pointed spires shaped like the Washington Monument and Cleopatra’s needle – the ancient Egyptian obelisk now in Central Park in New York. The sun was eleven degrees above the horizon so scientists could calculate the height of the structures from their shadows. The tallest “obelisk” is the size of a fifteen story building! The smallest of the group is the height of a large fir tree. In America, William Blair of the Boeing Institute of Biotechnology analyzed the arrangement of the strange structures and concluded that they were in triangular alignments with each other. The obelisks formed six isosceles triangles. That certainly couldn’t have just happened by chance, he figured. Situated beside them, he noted a rectangular “depression” that looked like an excavation whose walls had eroded. It all looked like the work of intelligent beings. Blair called for an archaeological assessment to help unveil the mystery of what were dubbed “the Blair Cuspids.” In Russia, Alexander Ambrov already had the archaeological approach in hand. Besides being a space engineer, he was also steeped in Egyptology and the geometry of the pyramids. When he looked at the configuration of the strange objects photographed by the lunar orbiters, bells went off. He began calculating. The configurations of the pyramids at Gizeh near Cairo can be set out precisely on something called in ancient Egypt, an “abaka” – a grid or table of forty-nine squares. Pyramids are arranged on this grid in a very specific way. Abramov applied the grid to the lunar structures. And felt the flush of discovery. The obelisks on the moon are arranged on this grid in the exact same pattern as the pyramids. The distribution of these lunar objects, states Abramov, is like the plan of the Egyptian pyramids Cheops, Chephren, and Mankura at Gizeh. The tips of the obelisks in this lunar ‘abaka’ occupy precisely the same points as the tops of the three great pyramids.” This is the discovery Abramov pressed on us. Structures on the moon and the pyramids outside Cairo are built on the same precise geometric pattern! It was hard to imagine this was by chance. It was also hard to imagine what that might mean. With Sanderson, in Argosy (August 1970), we broke the news in the West. Abramov continued corresponding with Sheila for years. Then, more recently, a couple of bells went off in our heads. A few years ago, NASA consultant Richard Hoagland and his team brought wide attention to the supposed “Face On Mars.” The Face isn’t alone on Mars, Hoagland reported. There are other seemingly artificial structures. Articles and photos began circulating saying that these structures were arranged on the same pattern as monuments in ancient Egypt, and Britain. It sounded familiar. A bigger bell went off when Robert Bauval and Adrian Gilbert unveiled secrets about the pyramids hidden for thousands of years. In The Orion Mystery, they published results of a ten year investigation which makes a convincing case that a specific plan for the arrangement of the pyramids was created before the first was built, and was carried forward through the years by the great pharaohs. What’s the plan? With great astronomical precision, the three pyramids are arranged to form a map of the three bright stars in Orion’s belt. If they are right, and Ambrov’s right, then the mystery is cloning. The pyramids in Egypt form a map of Orion. The obelisks on the moon in the same arrangement then also form a map of Orion- from earth’s point of view. Is there a message? IS IT GETTING CROWDED ON THE MOON? Soviet probe Luna 9 landed at the Ocean of Storms on February 4, 1966. Ivan Sanderson examined the Luna photos we’d obtained. “There are two straight lines of equidistant stones that look like markers along an airport runway.” he observed. “These circular stones are all identical, and are positioned at an angle that produces a strong reflection from the sun.” Even stranger, each stone is incised with two perfect circles, one on each side. Luna shifted as it photographed so the Society had a double set of photos at different angles, allowing investigators to set up a 3-D stereoscopic view of the long “stone runway.” One of the U.S.S.R.’s most prestigious scientists, Dr. S. Ivanov, inventor of stereo movies in the U.S.S.R. and winner of the Laureate State Prize (the Soviet equivalent of the Nobel Prize), and engineer A. Brukonenko published a startling analysis of these photos along with Abramov’s data on the mysterious moon monuments in the Soviet magazine Technology for Youth (November 5, 1969). To their surprise the stone markers were spaced at precise, regular intervals. “The objects as seen in 3-D seem to be arranged according to definite geometric laws.” Ivanov concluded. They were unquestionably “planned structures,” and the pointed spires (obelisks), he said, were not natural formations but “Artificial structures of alien origin.” “The moon’s stones shout a message to mankind!” declared the Soviet analysts. The discoveries attracted serious attention in Russian universities, our professor friends told us. Sanderson speculated: “Is the origin of the obelisks on the earth and those on the moon the same?” What is the purpose of an obelisk anyway, and why did the ancients go to all the trouble of making them? We added our own wonderings. Could obelisks be some form of psychotronic generator related to flight? Recently translated Sanskrit astronautics texts reveal ancient humans had developed saucerlike flying craft call “vimanas.” Could the ancients have reached the moon? Or did ancient astronauts travel to both moon and earth, leaving their unique signature and even guide maps on both locations? In his many years of correspondence with us, Dr. Abramov repeatedly emphasized, “The solutions to the mysteries of the moon, UFOs, and the early monuments of Britain like Stonehenge, can all be found in ancient Egypt.” “This discovery [of alien moon structures] must be heralded as among the most important discoveries made by either the American or Soviet space program!” says David Hatcher Childless of the Russian analysis of these moon photos in his book Extra-terrestrial Archaeology. “But strangely enough . . . they have been ignored.” Or have they? The enigma deepens. Childless’s 1994 book makes public hundreds more Soviet and American space-agency and astronomical photos of the moon that reveal dozens of strange artifacts: Seeming pyramids, tunnels, bridges, moving objects that appear and disappear. And there’s more — official NASA photos of large cigar-shaped and saucer-shaped, glowing UFO’s traveling near the moon in and out of its craters. Soviet cosmonauts are not the only ones seeing UFO’s. American astronauts took many of these photos and films during Apollo missions. The first Apollo mission landed at the Sea of Tranquillity where the mysterious moon obelisks are located. Based on Russian space sources, Dr. Vladimir Azhazha claims, “Neil Armstrong relayed the message to Mission Control that two large, mysterious objects were watching them after having landed near the moon module. But this message was never heard by the public – because NASA censored it.” Armstrong denies ever seeing UFO’s. Maurice Chatelain, former Chief of NASA Communications Systems, who has appeared in numerous UFO documentaries, was quoted in Nexus Magazine — “Armstong saw two UFO’s on the rim of a crater.” He added,” . . . all Apollo and Gemini flights were followed, both at a distance and sometimes quite closely, by space vehicles of extraterrestrial origin . . . The astronauts informed Mission Control, who then ordered absolute silence.” Nexus reports that Chatelain, in April, 1996, dropped the “bombshell revelation” that the Apollo Moon Mission found “several mysterious geometric structures of unnatural origin on the moon.” It’s hard to unravel the claims and counterclaims about UFO’s. Some American astronauts speak readily to sighting UFO’s as jet pilots. But they deny seeing them in space. All except one, perhaps. Former astronaut, Dr. Brian O’Leary, speaking at the International Forum on New Science in Fort Collins, Colorado, September 18, 1994, declared flatly, “We have contact with alien cultures . . .” He believes the suppression of fifty years of data was orchestrated by the secrecy apparatus of interlocking intelligence and security agencies. “The Cosmic Watergate” he said, “of UFO, alien, mind-control, genetic engineering, free-energy, antigravity-propulsion, and other secrets will make Watergate and Irangate appear to be kindergarten exercises. But,” he asserts, “the truth will and must be known eventually.” Is the moon a UFO base for earth reconnaissance? Were Apollo astronauts, while collecting moon rocks, actually extraterrestrial archaeologists examining “ruins?” Is this the most explosive secret of all — half a century of suppressed evidence of alien encounters and activities? Could the big Soviet-American push into psi research have another facet-motivated not only by the Cold War, but also by the urgent need to cope with ETs? In 1966, Dr. Courtney Brown claimed in his book Cosmic Voyage that for years, U.S. intelligence and defense agencies have been using remote-viewing clairvoyants to try to track UFOs visiting earth. Could the costly Soviet Tesla projects and the U.S.’s HAARP– which use the ionosphere for surveillance of space around the planet and deep inside the earth and oceans – have another, more covert defense purpose? With the Cold War over and many missiles dismantled, could these tracking systems also be monitoring UFOs? Could the hypersecret Soviet development of psychotronic weapons have been not only for defense against Westerners, but against the superior technology of ETs? On March 21, 1996, a briefing was held at Washington’s National Press Club, about thirty-year old “suppressed evidence” of manufactured artifacts on the moon. Richard Hoagland and a panel of scientists revealed that photos and film of lunar artifacts have undergone four years of sophisticated analysis and enhancement by the latest scientific and computer technologies — methods that did not exist thirty years ago when the photos were taken. “These official mission films provide compelling scientific evidence for the presence of ancient artificial structures on the moon,” says Hoagland. Computer-enhanced photos of Apollo 12 astronaut Alan Bean on the moon supposedly show he’s actually standing in front of a huge domed tier — a “ruin” towering above and behind the lunar module Intrepid. NASA has been airbrushing photos, according to Hoagland. The basic purpose of the Apollo program, he claims, “was to send Americans directly to these ruins, to record them on film and to bring back physical evidence (including manufactured artifacts) for analysis on earth.” If that’s true, why was there such a massive cover-up? Hoagland believes thirty years ago people weren’t ready to digest the news about the moon’s surface- “Hard physical ruins left by a race of obviously superior beings,” he says, would have “collapsed civilization.” As we speed toward the millennium, there’s a growing consensus from a host of sources that humanity is heading for a rendezvous with destiny – heading toward acknowledging the wondrous and terrifying news. “We are not alone” – heading towards the shift to “galactic consciousness.” Recent archaeological discoveries, revelations of Native American spiritual leaders, chronicles of many ancient cultures from India to South America – all point to centuries-old visitations by extraterrestrials. And the prediction that the time has come for them to return here again. Humanity’s own origins are shrouded in mystery….”
Legrand H. Clegg II, Editor and Publisher, MA’AT news
USA – Friday, November 05, 1999 at 00:47:40 (EST)
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READ THIS: Se alafia ne? One thing I have seen is the incessant barage of characters on this website posting nothing more than mere opinion…White Supremacist opinions at that. I can tell by the words of such Anti-Black Egyptian proponents that they either exist in a state of ignorance or in a realm of biased denial and conscious neglect. To present credible information to support a theory is one thing, but to engage one’s self in a child’s play game of immature insults, name-callings and character assasinations is a horse of a different nature. As my beloved brothers Shekem aka Menes and X-Dude have pointed out, when one runs dry on supporting evidence…one seeks to support bullshxt. This is what this guestbook has been cluttered with lately. Some time ago, I, like others here, defended the Black Egyptian stance with supportable evidence from OUTSIDE of Kemet, notably from the rest of African. However, those only bent on bravado and “bashing illerate negroids” have conveniently overlooked such claims and statements like an elephant would the world and reality of bro. ant. Eventhough, I believe outside evidence is valuable to concluding as to what realm and plane Kemet and the Kamau (Egyptians) fall in. Africa provides us with substantial material to connect Kemet with the African world and reality; so much proof does Africa hands that proposing a cultural diffusion theory would seem too elementary and simple to resolve the issue. This bulk of evidence is usually spoken by Euro-centric “scholars” in a casual, roundabout and tongue-in-the-cheek way, I guess either they are aware of the potential of such a linkage and are afraid of recognizing it or they are so biased in thought that Africa seems like the least likely place to look. Yet, the fact remains, as I was talking to an elder of mine, that there is a “new blood” of African researchers, scientists and scholars whom, in the next millenium, will become more aggressive and creative in expressing the true African experience. This vanguard of ancestor-inspired warrior/scholars will redefine our scientific theories and methods, in accordance with the senses of their forebearers, and initiate a renaissance in thought, study and most importantly, RECLAMATION. Aware of these young and brash upstarts, the Western academia is launching a new initiative to nip at the bud the productive flowering which is inevitable. Yes, “Ivy League” and company, knowing their backs are ever more forced against the wall and that they are being put into a unknown defensive posture, figure that a new offensive move is the most feasible tactic, which is what we are witnessing here with this un-educated group of propogandists invading African sanctity. Have you ever wondered why Skip Gates is now all of a sudden motivated to produce a “tourist guide” of Africa, which in content attempts to separate Kemet, Nubia (Kush) and Ethiopia from Africa, while at the same time, tries to demonize and scrutinize those Africans you can not put a “white-face” on? What was Mr. Gates trying to prove, and much subtly, trying to imply? Is this not a Euro-centric ruse of using a Negro to stop the rise of Black Reclamation intellectuals? The new millenium is approaching and interest in African is increasing as the Western world shifts into high gear its Globalization plans. Young Black minds like those who visit this website are dramatically becoming a serious threat to these Western globalized hegemony plans and they MUST not be afforded the luxury to proliferate! This is what the invaders in here are saying. To further the cause of our Liberation, we must stop being “rote” learners and become radical poineers listening to the ancestral drums that beat in our hearts and minds as we search for more innovative ways to our Redemption. It is up to us! We need more effective Black renegade archeologists (who will explore West Africa and other places), tenacious anthropologists ( who research the world’s end to tell humanity story in a true light), intuitive historians (who can present the facts in a TIMELINE fashion), brilliant mathematicians (who can redefine the concept of time and document the mathematical genius of Africa), skilled metaphysicians (who are capable of telling African cosmologies and hero-stories) and we need ad infinitum. Understand these needed people can not perform effectively, efficiently and progressively without the Proper Funding for their endeavors, so therefore, we need ECONOMIC EMPOWERMENT on a collective level to address the affairs relevant to African survival and resurrection. What do Europeans have to lose in remaining adamant to a subconsciously professed African (Negro) inferiority, that is preached symbolically. You didn’t catch it. If these Negroes began to band together and channel their research and resources collective into a coherent fusion, all plans of our imposed hierarchy is null and void. Blacks will began to bring the yoke of Euro-centric orientation such as the Mercator map with its special emphasis of placing Europe in centralized location as the sun is in this helio-centric “SOLAR” system. The Negroes will not call next year the year 2000, in agreement with our Euro-centric structuring of time, but it will be for Diasporan Africans…the next year 441 M.P. (Maafa Period). They overthrow us like the Visigoths did Rome with the rest of the northern “dumb blond” barbarians. Our standards of civilization, our method of name things into existence, our process of paper ordained codes, our priviledge status in this global apartheid caste system, our rape of natural resources to further our aims, our institutionalized concept of progress of Third World countries, our ideas of literacy, our explanation of the world and our very life blood will all be forever a nasty memory. This what Europeans would lose, but it is impossible for Europeans to overstand this fact since the world is nice and “right” as it now is. Odabo! My people be strong and continue to hear the ancestors.
Kwabena Adofo Danquah
Minneapolis, MN USA – Thursday, November 04, 1999 at 20:49:28 (EST)
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They just don’t get it! The trailer trash just don’t get it! We know you are afraid! You are a tiny minority that is in “psychological control” through the use of terror and systems of oppression. This makes you extremely vulnerable! We know you are afraid of the FACT that your system of racism white supremacy is coming to an end. That is why they come here absolutely paranoid about “WHAT WE THINK OF OURSELVES AND OUR OWN ANCESTORS”. I do not hate all white people, and anybody that does is making a mistake. I do hate the white system of oppression, exploitation, and all those that support it (Black Uncle Tom SAMBOs and white alike). My comments are directed to them and them alone (regardless of their numbers). The main thing these white supremist “SLIMEING” this site and the Earth don’t understand is that WE DON”T CARE WHAT THEY THINK. This site is for us to discuss our people alone. There is nothing these savages can do to effect how we think of ourselves once we have been exposed to the truth. I am a witness to this for I can say the I was an unconscious uncle tom at one time. Now, I will give my life for my Black people. Now, enough with the blonde hair blue eye mummy….we have laughed enough! THUTMOS TURNER
Thutmos Turner
Compton, CA USA – Thursday, November 04, 1999 at 16:01:46 (EST)
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Correction in the third sentence: And it is fear of the end of their vicious system of exploitation that keeps them from admitting that the Egyptians were BLACK.
Shekem
Age: 20, USA – Thursday, November 04, 1999 at 14:40:02 (EST)
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Devil’s Advocate: First of all Sherry claimed that the Egyptians were Nordics with Blonde Hair and Blue eyes. Secondly, Arabs are considered “dark whites”. And it is fear of the end of their vicious system of exploitation that keeps them from admitting that the Egyptians were white. As long as they can say that the Egyptians were “dark whites” they will always maintain the false idea of racial superiority with which they have fooled so many people. And yes they have fooled many people. The evidence that was presented clearly indicates that the Egyptians were black. Had this not been a racist world, and we were truly interested in classifying the differences in humans, we would have to reach the conclusion that the Egyptians were Black. By white people owns standards they are Black. Why is it that the white “scholars” are now changing the criteria for racial identification when they realize that it could mean that we started civilization. Lastly, ever heard of the saying that says you must love yourself before you can love someone else. Well, we (I know I) don’t teach hate, I teach love for self. If this world were not turned into a world filled with racism where a group of people are forcefully subjugated socially and worse psychologically, for the the economic benefit of another, we could just go on and focus on the betterment of human kind. Right now it is one step at a time. Had this not been a racist world everyone would acknowledge their debt to their ancestors and the original people of this earth. This is where we are going. Believe me the process has begun and it won’t be long now. All the efforts of the racist are doing nothing but prolonging the inevitable!
Shekem
Age: 20, USA – Thursday, November 04, 1999 at 14:36:46 (EST)
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Raping the earth, polluting the air, destroying animal species not because it was needed but because it was wanted. You call that civilized. Isn’t circumcision sexual mutalation? Would you call the legal murder of thousands of people on death row every year civilized? How about the fact that you kill thousands through second hand smoke? You think you’re more civilized because you don’t have to see the people you kill? How about the sanctions on Iraq that kills millions of man, women and children. Death by starvation of millions to appease your unlimited want. Are you great because you stole land and had others build the nation you now benefit from? Are you great because you build weapons of mass destruction? Or maybe because you’ve caused diseases that are unknown to many.All those who wrote derogatory remarks about the original people, I know you are AFRAID. This is why you are here. This is why you want to put in words to discourage our efforts. Your numbers are dwindling to nothing, you have effectively ensured your death by depleting the ozone. The End of Western Civilization is near and you can see it. Babylon will fall. If you think about it, spiritualy, you are the equivalent of the devil. According to the Bible, who is now in charge of the world? But not for long. The devil has done a lot of things that blind ones see as being great. But you see the TRUTH has returned. You are like a virus that has infected the earth, we are the here with the medication that will purge you from this earth. For almost 200,000 years we had peace. You see, building monuments doesn’t define the greatness of humans. Civilization is living harmoniously, working with nature, ensuring balance, being spiritually entuned. As for Advocate, Sherry, Iskander, Brian, PRO TRUTH, and whoever else wrote anything against us, I make you a promise. I guarantee your children will one day regret that their ancestors so evil and they will honor, respect, and love the original people to whom their debt is immeasurable!!! We can put a wager on it that our children’s children will have to pay. We both know your downfall is inevitable!!!
Shekem
Age: 20, USA – Thursday, November 04, 1999 at 01:07:26 (EST)
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http://www.nbufront.org/html/MastersMuseums/JHClarke/Contemporaries/CheikhAntaDiop.html
X-Dude
USA – Wednesday, November 03, 1999 at 20:35:47 (EST)
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To Sherry: SHAME ON YOU!!! While you are so busy trying to respond to the barrage of Black intellectuals’ comments, you have failed in English 101. Your statement “you will never get no where” is grammatically incorrect, in that you use a double negative. I thought you White folk learned that as early as the 11th grade. SHAME ON YOU!!!
The Englishman
USA – Wednesday, November 03, 1999 at 12:32:28 (EST)
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The Sherry thing is BACK! Or should we call it Harman, Advocate, white trash, etc. The Sherry thing (is back from its Neo Nazi sh-t kicking Aryan white supremist hate site). Back with more stories about blonde hair blue eyed mummies. Funny how all these people sound the very same. More white supremist minority strategies of making themselves bigger and more together than they are. Sounds like a “B” horror movie. Blond hari blue eyes …..these mummies must have been neo nazi white supremist mummies! Back to the caves of the Caucausus mountains where you were sexually abusing animals. Neo nazi mummies! I needed a good laugh this morning Sherrie thing…..thank you. You are the joke of the internet! THUTMOS TURNER
Thutmos Turner
Compton, CA USA – Wednesday, November 03, 1999 at 10:42:07 (EST)
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To: white Harmon and white Advocate person: In case you can’t read, I would like to inform you that the moderator (brother Clegg) has just given you both another “LEGENDARY” kick in the ass! You have made fools of yourself with your blonde mummy antics. I think this would be an appropriate time and opportunity for the both of you white boys to repent and appologize. You have disgraced yourselves and your white race! PATHETIC!!!!!!! OH by the way Mr. white Harman person, brother Cheikh Anta Diop did not just have some sort of degree in physics as you attempted to distort the truth (typically). Brother Diop was a Physicist, a Linguist, a Carbon Dater, Anthropologist, etc. This man is renouned by Black and white scholars worldwide. You should lick the boots of every Black person you pass for this folly. When you come here, come in honesty not slander. We will meet you on any level you want to play. THUTMOS TURNER
Thutmos Turner
Compton, CA USA – Wednesday, November 03, 1999 at 02:12:12 (EST)
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TO: Bryan Harmon: This is a brief response to your comments. First in his book “Black Spark: White fire, Fire: Did ancient Black navigators civilize Europe?” White journalist Richard Poe devotes several chapters to the work of bioanthropologist Dr. Shomarka Keita. Dr. Keita’s conclusion regarding the ancient Egyptians was that the indigenous Egyptians, who laid the foundation of civilization, were blacks. Poe also does an excellent critique on Frank Snowden and his distorted views. For years Whites refused to publish Snowden’s work, so he finally decided to compromise himself. Yes the Egyptians were lighter than the Nubians, just as the Toucouleur are lighter than the Nigerians, but they are both of the same racial stock. Why is it that White people can accept dark Sicilians and Nordics as extremes of the White race, but they can’t apply this reasoning to Africans. The bust of Nefertiti has no insignia on it whatsoever. There is no evidence as to whom it belongs. On the other hand, scores of temple carvings of her and her husband in the City of Akhetaton show them both to have been very Negroid. Some carvings even show her wearing her hair in cornrows. As for the physical types of the ancient Egyptians, I recommend that you read an article, “The Biological Relationship of The Ancient Egyptians to Other Populations,” by Dr. Keith Crawford of Howard University. It appears in the new Journal of Pan African Studies that can be obtained by calling: (818) 677-3311. After presenting a diversity of data, the author concludes: “Studies of linkage disequilibrium and allelic variation at a mini-satellite locus suggests that Hamitic Africoids are descended from sub-Saharan Africans, the differences in trait probably due to genetic drift and environmental selection. Ancient Egyptian populations with ‘non-Negroid” facial features are most similar to these modern Hamitic (Elongated Africoid) populations of Northeast Africa. Preliminary studies with Mitochondrial DNA also suggest affiliations with sub-Sharan Africans for ancient Egyptians and some modern Egyptian groups. Within an evolutionary paradigm, differences between Upper and Lower Egyptians once thought to be racially-influenced differences, can now be alternatively interpreted as clinal variation, an expression of environmental selection. The ancient Egyptians have limb proportions and other features of their stature that are the same as all other African populations but different from Caucasoids in Europe and Asia. These adaptations indicate a long period of evolution in tropical regions. Since Egypt is not in tropical Africa, these observations reinforce sub-Saharan Africa as the region of origin for the ancient Egyptians. Collectively, all of these data strongly support an African bio-historical affiliation for the ancient Egyptians and their closest relationships with other Africoids. The ancient Egyptians were most similar to populations inhabiting Northeast Africa, which included variants with Broad (Negroid), Elongated (Hamitic) and Nilotic facial traits.” The following statement that we posted on October 13 provides responses to some of the other issues that you raised. A more scientific response was posted here on October 19, by “Blackfacts.” It would also be worth reading: To Carl and Sherry: Most of our Black colleagues refuse to respond to White people who passionately condemn our contention that the ancient Egyptians were Black Africans. They believe that to attempt a debate with Caucasians on this issue is a useless dialogue of the deaf. We, on the other hand, believe that most White people are victims of a vast conspiracy promoted by scholars, scientists and politicians who have developed a “civilization” based on fiction. Part of this fiction is that Whites have been the harbingers of civilization since time immemorial, and that Blacks and other people of color have been their subordinates throughout history. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Hence, when you come to this site with your racist views, we are certain to respond. We believe that the falsification of history by White scientists and scholars has remained unchallenged for far too long. And we certainly will not tolerate it here. So, let’s get it on! We’ll start with you, CARL: It is absurd for you to claim that “no one denied Egypt is in Africa…just not Black Africa.” I challenge you to find 10 books written by White Egyptologists who mention that Egypt is in Africa. They are in such denial that they cannot even tell the truth about geography. Why? Because they know that to mention Africa would suggest Blackness and the real origin of all African people, including the Egyptians. Secondly, you claim that the Egyptians “mixed with blacks” during the late period and that this was responsible for the decline of the country. This, too, is untrue. The Egyptians themselves traced their origin to the BLACK SOUTH- the land of Punt, modern day Somalia, Kenya and Uganda. Even racist white Egyptologists will admit that the early fossils and skulls of the predynastic Egyptians are “Negroid.” The Black Egyptians later mixed with Assyrians, Persians, Greeks, Roman, etc.-all of whom brought nothing but destruction and desecration of monuments, traditions and human beings. Finally, if Egypt were indeed a white (you say “blonde”) civilization, why did White people cross the mountains and hills of Europe, sail across the Mediterranean into Africa and then cross miles of hot desert sands to begin civilization on another continent, yet they left no evidence of their brilliant civilization in Europe! Why? Because this never happened! The truth is that Black people founded Egypt long before Europeans even existed in the world. White journalist Richard Poe has said the following about the earliest White Egyptians: “Why is the racial identity of ancient Egypt such a sensitive issue? Perhaps because it touches on the question of who invented civilization: Whites or Blacks? When the pyramids were built, Europe was still a wilderness, peopled by cannibals and headhunters.” We are not “inventing proof,” Carl, White scholars and scientists have been doing so for two hundred years, and we, as Black people, are simply not going to tolerate this degradation of our people and our history any more. It must stop, now, as we enter the 21st Century. Now, as for you, Sherry: You stated that you do not understand what White people would gain from claiming the ancient Egyptians were White, if this were not so. Why would they lie about history? White scientists and scholars would lie about history for the perpetuation of the illusion of White supremacy. White supremacy dominates everything in this society (i.e., economics, education, labor, law, politics, religion, etc.) The distortion of history is just one component of this longstanding practice and tradition. The Egyptians had many slaves, some of whom were Black people from the south-the very south to which the Egyptians traced their origin. In centuries passed Europeans enslaved other Europeans, and no one questioned the fact that some White people enslaved other Whites. But, if Egyptians enslaved Nubians they must have been of a different race. This is nonsense. Both the Egyptians and Nubians were African people. As you will see below, in my brief reference to Egyptian mummies, the remains that you make reference to are totally inconclusive. There is no proof of the true identity of the mummies of Ramesis II and Queen Hatshepsut. Furthermore, Queen Hatshepsut was the granddaughter of the unquestionably Black queen Ahmose Nefertari, co-founder of the 18th dynasty. Hatshepsut’s entire family was of Nubian origin. Moreover, have you seen the wall paintings of Queen Hatshepsut’s expeditions to the African nation of Punt. The king and queen of Punt are clearly Black Africans. The peaceful relationship between the Egyptians and the Puntites resulted from the fact that the Egyptians traced their origin to Punt. We are well aware of the on again/ off again conflict between the Negroid Egyptians and the Black Nubians. Breasted, as most other racist Egyptologists, has erroneously defined the word Nahasi as “Black,” when it meant no such thing. So all of that nonsense that you have quoted about “Blacks” not being able to cross into Egypt, etc. is a farce. Nahasi was a geographical name applied to certain peoples, tribes and nations south of Egypt. Remember, the people of Punt (modern day Somalia, Kenya & Uganda) were also south of Egypt and Black, but the Egyptians did not refer to them as Nahasi because they were in a different location (in East Africa and on the horn of Africa). In this vein, Cheikh Anta Diop has written: “Because of this inscription which marked off the border between the Meriotic Sudan and Egypt after the troubles of the Twelfth Dynasty, it is often concluded that this separated two distinct races, that the stela barred ‘Blacks’ from entering Egypt. Such a conclusion is a grievous error, for the term “Black” was never used by the Egyptians to distinguish the Meriotic Sundanese from themselves. Egyptians and Meroitic Sundanese belonged to the same race. They designated each other by tribal and regional names, never by epithets related to color, as in cases involving contact between a black race and a white race.” Diop also adds: “Not one of the many modern texts is authentic that mentions the term ‘Black’ as if it had ever been used by the Egyptians to distinguish themselves from Negroes. Whenever these texts relate some fact reported by the Egyptians about ‘Blacks’ it is a distortion. They translate Nahasi by ‘Blacks’ in order to serve the cause. Strangely enough, the word Kushite becomes incompatible with the idea of ‘Blacks’ as soon as it refers to the first inhabitants who civilized Arabia before Mohammed; the land of Canaan, prior to the Jews (Phoenicia); Mesopotamia, prior to the Assyrians (Chaldean epoch); Elam; India, before the Aryans. This is one of the many contradictions that betray the specialists’ fear of revealing facts they must have detected.” Now the word Kemit, WHICH DOES MEAN BLACK, was used by the Egyptians to describe themselves; but the same Egyptologists who mistranslate Nahasi as Black claim that Kemit refers not to the people, but to the soil. We reject this nonsense out of hand. You mentioned Sesostris I and III and claim that they hated “the Blacks.” Sherry, not only were these middle Kemit pharaohs of Nubian origin Nubia, but their sculptures depict them as unquestionably Black Africans themselves. Even some of their queens are shown wearing “Afro” hairstyles. What we have here is Black Egyptians at war with Black Nubians. You cannot expect us to believe that these Black Pharaohs referred to the lands south of Egypt as Black lands, when they called their own country, Egypt, “the place of the Black people.” Nahasi does not mean Black. In the midst of all your citations, you also mentioned the pharaoh Ahmose, brother of Ahmose-Nefertari (also his queen) as saying “The Black is helpless. Even Harris and Weeks (no friends to Africentrists), who wrote “X-Ray The Pharaohs,” admit that this pharaoh and his family were “genetically influenced by people of the south.” They go on to say: “Various scholars in the past have proposed a Nubian…origin for Sequenenre (Ahmose’s grandfather) and his family, and his facial features suggest this might indeed be true. If it is true, the history of the family that reputedly drove the Hyksos from Egypt, and the history of the Seventeenth Dynasty, stands in need of considerable re-examination.” Now here you have two White Egyptologist acknowledging that Ahmose was Nubian, and yet, you insist that he despised “the Blacks.” We reject your reasoning, Sherry, because it is the same preposterous thinking that has led to the illusion of a White (blonde, you claim) Egypt in the middle of Africa. Generally, when the Egyptians painted foreigners, they depicted them true to form; but when they painted themselves, they often depicted themselves as reddish brown-the colors of life, blood and rebirth. This was a conventional color, which they used no matter what the actual color of the individual might have been. When the Egyptians chose to depict the races with which they were familiar, they depicted themselves and the Nubians with BLACK SKIN. They depicted Europeans and Semites as white and tan respectively. If you visit the tomb of Ramesis III (1200 B.C.) you will see this firsthand. Furthermore, the most ancient monument in Egypt, the Sphinx, bears the likeness of a Black African and, during the late period, when Herodetus and other Greeks visited Egypt, they described the people as Black skinned with woolly hair: Hence, from the early date of the Sphinx, through Ramesis III and finally the late period, the Egyptians were clearly “Negroid,” in spite of the gradual mixture with foreigners. As for blue-eyed Egyptians, this is clearly a fluke. As a matter of fact, it may even be fake. Not even the staunchest racist would claim that the Egyptians had blue eyes. Next, the “mummy evidence” that you mention has lost all credibility. In a recent article in KMT magazine, it was pointed out that grave robbers stacked scores of mummies on top of one another, and later Egyptologists picked and chose at random which mummies they wanted to represent which pharaohs. Since most of the Egyptologists are blatantly negrophobic, we, as Blacks, certainly do not trust the validity of the mummies they have selected, especially when these mummies do not bear the characteristics of the corresponding sculptures and monuments. All of the monuments of Ramesis II depict him with a very broad nose and thick lips-White people have pointed noses and thin lips. It is interesting that you would focus on King Tutankhamen (18th dynasty) to draw a distinction between the Egyptians and the Nubians. The 17th dynasty was of almost pure Nubian origin and the 18th dynasty was founded by the same family. All 18 of these pharaohs and queens were either Black, Negroid or of Black origin. Don’t you understand, Sherry, where there was conflict, these were Black people fighting other Black people, just as is happening in parts of Africa today. King Tut’s mother and father were Negroid. If you don’t accept this from us, then, let us give you the names of a few White scholars who agree: John Wilkinson, Gerald Massey, Christian Desroches-Noblecourt and Alexander von Wuthenau. As a matter of fact, Von Wuthenau says the following about King Tut, which should clarify our position for you: “The features of this king, whose mother was of pure black stock, are almost as Negroid as the ones of his captured Nubian enemies.” One of the founders of modern Egyptology was Champollion the younger. He and his Colleagues knew that the ancient Egyptians were not White people. In a letter to his brother, he described the paintings on the tomb of Sesostris I: This is what he said about the White people, who were designated last in the status of human beings: “Finally, the last one is what we call flesh-colored, a white skin of the most delicate shade, a nose straight arched, blue eyes, blond or reddish beard, tall stature and very slender, clad in a hairy ox-skin, a veritable savage tattooed on various parts of his body; he is called Tamhou…finally (and I am ashamed to say so, since our race is the last and the most savage in the series), Europeans who, in those remote epochs, frankly did not cut too fine a figure in the world. In this category we must include all blond and white-skinned people living not only in Europe, but Asia as well, their starting point.” Finally, even with all of the White suppression of evidence and lies, most of the mummies on display have Negroid features; DNA tests show a genetic relationship between the Egyptians and Nubians. Scholars like Diop and Greenberg have demonstrated that the tongue of the Pharaohs was related to other African languages. Furthermore, if the Egyptians were white and blonde, why didn’t the Greeks and Romans say so. They and the Hebrews described the ancient Egyptians as Black skinned with woolly hair. You and your kinsmen may continue to perpetuate white supremacist nonsense; but we as people of African descent are no longer dependent on you for information, thank God. So we will tell our own story, whether you like it or not!!! Legrand H. Clegg II Editor & Publisher, MA’AT news
Legrand H. Clegg II, Editor and Publisher, MA’AT news
USA – Tuesday, November 02, 1999 at 22:27:34 (EST)
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For starters Cheik Anta Diop was not an egyptologist he had a Phd. in some sort of science, perhaps physics.In 1990 and 1992 Dr. Shomarka Keita a black bioanthropologist conduted reasearh on Egyptian skulls and found the northern Egyptians had skulls intermediate between north Europeans and Egypts southern neighbors. This study was in the American Journal of American Anthropology or Archeology I forget which one. Secondly, It must be remebered the Ancient Egyptians called their southern neighbors “wretched” Kush or “miserable” Kush which shows the Egyptians thought their southern neighbors were savages. Martin Bernal in his book Black Athena described the northern Egyptians as being a lighter Meditteranian type while the southern Egyptians were dark. Greek writers such as Manilius, Flavius Philistratus, and Arrian all commented on how the Egyptians were lighter than their southern neighbors but the afrocentrists ignore this. Frank Snowden a black classicist from Howard University found those examples of Greek authors. Also Dr.Snowden talks about how Greeks called black people Ethiopian which means “burnt faced”.Look at the famous bust of Nefertiti this is a perfect example of a northern Egyptian. She has a tan complexion and very non negroid facial features. She was the Queen of Akhnaten.Salima Ikram and Aidan Dodsan who are real Egyptologists and experts on mummies because they have seen thousands while studying in Egypt have said that the northern Egyptians were a light tan complexion with straight hair and non negroid features while the southern Egyptians were a dark brown and negroid looking people. The problem is that to qualify as black in most countries you must be pretty dark and the northern Egyptians dont qualify as even fairly dark. In South Africa,the Latin American countries and Arab countries light brown is not a black person. The same applies in White countries unless you have black ancestry and it is visible.in the melanin test Diop simply says that the Egyptians are darker than northern Europeans but that is not good enough for me or the greatest expert on mummies in the world Salima Ikram who is an Egyptologist in Egypt as mentioned before. She has seen thousands of mummies and could kill Diop in a debate.I met her in Washington D.C. and she is incredibly intelligent.She is not white either and she has a dark compiexion so I doubt she is racist.We need a commission of archeologists and egyptologists from around the world to study the remains of the Egyptians and reach a real conclusion about their race once and for all.The Greeks lived on the Meditteranian and had light brown skin,straight brown hair, and non negroid features and the northern Egyptians had these same features. With Diop’s argument I guess they must all be black.All Diop had to do was test southern Egyptians to get Black Egyptians and it appears that some of his testing was done on southern sites and allowed to stand for all of Egypt.I must be cautious of this problem. According to Rosa David a prominent Egyptologist the Egyptians had different blood types and her study did not even talk about race at all.The Egyptians had different comlexions and to claim them as either “black” or “white” reveals much more about the person making the claim than the Egyptians themselves!!!
Bryan Harman
Age: 24, Richmond, VA USA – Tuesday, November 02, 1999 at 13:42:32 (EST)
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this message is for tutmose turner in compton california. You are a true revolutionary. I wanted to e-mail you because I am in the Afrikan Student Union in California and I am finding it very hard to organize my comrades behind a central belief. please e-mail me. Your comrade a student in the art of Afrikan Amerikkkan revolution
laila
USA – Tuesday, November 02, 1999 at 00:49:37 (EST)
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Se alafia ne? It is good that we have brothers and sisters aware and conscious. The new millenium is approaching and our efforts as African people should be focused on nationbuilding, i.e. securing land, developing strategetic economic and socializatioin progams, projects and policies, incorporating a sense of national identity and evolving political platforms instead of the age old political Democratic/Republican favoritism. We have the potential to re-surrect like phoenix from flames just as sure as our ancestors build the khu-tis (pyramids), Zimbabwe, Ghana, Benin and other grand testiments. We are the original people, those who are destined for a great new within the old cycle of reciprocity. Let’s network, Let’s connect, Let’s build, Let’s strive. Black People, Black People, beautiful Black People, let no one define your reality except yourself!!!! This includes your past, present and future. Odabo. Ase Ase Ase-O Ire-O!!!
Kwabena Adofo Danquah
Minneapolis, MN USA – Monday, November 01, 1999 at 20:03:20 (EST)
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Should have expected it. This is in regard to an article from ABC News titled “First Americans from Europe?” located at http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/science/DailyNews/firstamericans991101.html —- Only weeks after skull evidence suggests (even proves) that blacks were first in the Americas, the Europeans try to steal the spotlight and say that their ancestors were first because their spear heads are “sooooo similar.” I think I am more apt to believe the skull and skeletal evidence, than spearheads. Europeans want to claim everything for themselves. It is soooo annoying.
Me again
Age: even older, Smalltown, In USA – Monday, November 01, 1999 at 17:19:46 (EST)
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Yes by Brothers, as the calcified Pineal Melanin deficient trailer trash white boy (Advocate person) said, the Native Americans have indeed endured so many trajadies. However, notice the Advocate thing did not address the fact that the white boy perpetrating GENOCIDE on the Native American was and is the only trajedy. Who splaughtered all the Indians? ANSWER: white boys! The only thing this savage Advocate white boy is sorry about is that it can’t go out to rape and kill today. Actually, since 100% of the mass murders and serial killers are white males….he just may be out killing as I write this message. SAVAGE BARBARIAN TRAILER TRASH with no upper lip (chicken lips Advocate)!
Thutmos Turner
Compton, CA USA – Monday, November 01, 1999 at 16:39:22 (EST)
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To: Bro. James Esther: Brother, “EVERY DOG HAS ITS DAY”. I’m sure you have heard that saying. The whites have been so-called in charge (to some extent) only a very brief period of time in history. Their oppressive terror has only lasted approximately 400 years. That is all! In the larger scheme of time and space, this is really insignificant, and it would be a grave error (an error the we make frequently) to think this is by any means a permanent condition. We are simply in the midst of a dark period of time and one that we will be able to draw knowledge from to eternity! The whites are only a tine MINORITY (less than 10%) and shrinking fast. Thus the reliance of the white man on so-called technology, brutality, geocide, and lies to stay in so-called control. Power is never relinquished voluntarily! NEVER! No brother, the white boy is not that powerful…..he is however a survivor at all cost. They are simply trying to survive. So then, what does it matter if you lie if it is to survive. The object is to stay in the game to survive at “ALL” cost. When a critical mass of Black people stop the negro mentality of thinking of these genetically recessive people as something special over us, stop trying to pray for the enemy and start to “BATTLE” them, when we start to “WORK TOGETHER AND LOVE ONE ANOTHER…….the worldwide system of racism white supremacy will fall overnight! “Every dog has its day”! Look around at the big picture and you will see the light going out on racism white supremacy. Life is a state of mind……and so is the so-called power of the white man. THUTMOS TURNER
Thutmos Turner
Compton, CA USA – Monday, November 01, 1999 at 16:24:46 (EST)
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Curtis is absolutely correct. Here is more information on it: http://my.cybersoup.com/bheki/anglo.html This is a webpage Mr. Bheki Ngidi of South Africa who is president of the Alexandra, Johannesburg branch of the Universal Negro Improvements Association (Marcus Garvey’s organisation) in South Africa. He would like to open communication lines with you since I am busy linking up with Afrocentric people and organisations worldwide.
Mackens P. Audena
USA – Monday, November 01, 1999 at 11:45:30 (EST)
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To “James Esther” You asked a good question. How is it that Europeans and Americans of that descent can still oppress black peoples. The answer is simple actually. Africa and the Carribean are rich in natural resources. Europeans and Americans however, have a strangle hold on extraction, production, manufacturing, export, etc. When black peoples try to cut into the business and manufacture at home what the Europeans usually manufacture using the natural resources of the black peoples (i.e., their land) white businessmen conspire to drive those individuals out of business. They intimidate the locals (for lack of a better word), and put pressure on the governments (by threatening to cut or end trade, investments, etc.). The governments (often corrupted by “western” ideals) would rather appease the European and American officials and businessmen, than do what is right economically and socially for the people. Now I say corruption, but even more so it is intimidation. Many African & Caribbean leaders feel that they must appease the white-owned multi-national corporations, otherwise their economies will be even worse than what it is. So they do not try to compete against them, they do not ask for fair (i.e., American equivalent) wages, they do not ask for any of this. And if they are unable to compete because of unfair trade practices, their economies will collapse. This is a water-downed and over-simplified explanation, but it is the best that I can do in the short time that i have. Travel to Jamaica, and other Caribbean nations. Travel to Africa. See how much of their economy is controlled by foreign whites. That is a primary source of oppression. Please forgive my spelling mistakes, I do not have time to proofread. Curtis
Curtis
Age: 27, BROOKLYN, NY USA – Monday, November 01, 1999 at 11:24:14 (EST)
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“Racial diversity as we think of it today only began approximately 25,000 years ago (Diop, 1991)…in Europe, Asia, Africa, and the Americas. Before that, all humankind was dark-skinned and Africoid.” I, as well as many of the posters here do not hate white people. Yet it seems that many white people are blinded to the fact that they have proclaimed their culture as the universal culture; thereby, subjugating all other cultures. They have defined beauty (Anything closer to white is beauty; this is why all other people want to be anything but Black), and intelligence by their standards. Our children are born into poverty because when European immigrants were conquering the western frontier and mining gold, Africans and American-Africans were being conditioned to believe that they were inferior. And what white people can’t see is that this process goes on today and everyday, with our children, in one form or another. One example is the one provided for us by Brother Curtis. Heres more, “Snow White,” “Beauty and the Beast” and almost everything on television. Those are reinforced in schools with biased history books and by school teachers who are unconsciously biased and who unconsciously affected the minds of our youth so that they can grow up to fulfil the prophesies of this society. All of the atrocious acts committed by the Europeans for greed and economic reasons. This theft of land and people and exploitation of others to attain goals is viewed as being great by many who would rather be anything but that of the original people. It is not there fault they have been conditioned to believe this way. Well, Black people, we are here to bring out the trueth. History has not ended. Let us continue to spread the word as we are doing. Let us continue to re-Africanize our selves and continue to play our parts in our upliftment. And let us do it without committing the same acts that were committed on us. That way we will show that we, the original people, made in the image of God, truly are great. We were great before European intervention just the way that we are. Greatness is not measured by their standards. Yet, we will prove that the resilient children of Neter can accomplish anything even without “cheating.” Europeans will never be able to erase the wrong that they have done, but since we are, we shall be better. We realize the past, let us now look towards the future. We need to begin networking and working together. We need to think about how to aid Africa to become the great and powerful nation it is destined to become. It doesn’t surprise me that American-Indians will not claim descent from Africa, many Afro-Caribbeans do the same thing. It is because they only wish to relate to what has been taught to them by the Western world as being superior. Well, you know what sometime in the future, I envision an African world, with the spread of the trueth, (Advocate, I hope this bothers you) where all people give will give respect to mother Africa and the original people. So it is written, so let it be done.
Shekem
Age: 20, Pitt, Pa USA – Sunday, October 31, 1999 at 22:07:41 (EST)
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Citrus, please provide your sources regarding your claim about black Sumer and Elam, and how the “original people who excavated the sites” said they were Negroid. I cannot find any verification of this. Sumerian sculpture shows people with long noses and long flowing beards; the claim that these people were Negroid is just ludicrous. Another thing – when I was at the library yesterday I happened to stumble upon several books on Chinese art, and saw no evidence whatsoever that the Shang represented themselves in their art as black people. In fact, I think you are pulling my leg on this one. This has to be some kind of silly joke.
Advocate
USA –
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And another thing, and this really gets me! The Advocate savage (white boy) has the nerve to mention “anything” to us about Brother Ivan Van Sertima and /or us robbing the Native American’s culture! This is really amazing and really shows to full light what barbaric savages (calcified Pineal gland and difficiency of the neuro peptide MELANIN) we are dealing with. Why? Because this animal has the nerve to speak about the Naitve American Indian people and claim we are robbing their culture through the factual explanation that the Olmecs were imdeed Black or of Black ancestry. The savage did not mention the fact that there were conservatively 85 – 90 MILLION Indians in this land “BEFORE” the white boy arrived here and began their never ending blood thursty slaughter!!!!!! Thats 85 – 90,000,000! TODAY, THERE ARE APPROXIMATELY 3 MILLION LEFT! NOW MR. WHITE boy TRAILER TRASH ADVOCATE….EVEN IF SOMEHOW WE WERE SO-CALLED ROBBING THE NATIVE AMERICAN OF HIS CULTURE, THAT COMES FAR FAR “LIGHT YEARS” SHORT OF THE WHITE BOYS GENOCIDAL SLAUGHTER OF CLOSE TO 90 MILLION NATIVE AMERICANS. IF THE NATIVE AMERICANS WERE GIVEN A CHOICE OF OUR WRITING BOOKS CLAIMING A PERT OF THEIR CULTURE VS. THE WHITE boys GENOCIDE OF THEIR PEOPLE, i’M SURE THEY WOULD HAVE TOLD US TO WRITE AS MANY BOOKS AS WE WANTED. THIS IS A CLEAR EXAMPLE OF THE PSYCHOTIC “UNFEELING” NATURE OF A SAVAGE BARBARIAN (AUSTRALOPITHICUS MENTALITY) CALCIFIED PINEAL MELANIN DEFICIENT WHITE boy. THIS ANIMAL SHOULD BE WORKING IN REPENTENT FASHION ON HIS KNEES TO REPAIR THE GENOCIDAL CARNAGE HIS RELATIVES HAVE INFLICTED ON THE NATIVE AMERICAN INDIANS. THIS IS INSANITY AND IT MUST BE DEALT WITH! THUTMOS TURNER
Thutmos Turner
Compton, CA USA – Sunday, October 31, 1999 at 01:36:52 (EDT)
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ALL HAIL THE GREAT BLACK EGYPTIAN!!!
PHAROAH
USA – Saturday, October 30, 1999 at 20:08:22 (EDT)
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Brother Shekem, you have hit it right on the head. May Ialso recommend “MELANIN ON MY MIND” by Charles “Wsir” Johnson. This is a paperback but very insightful. A deficiency of the neuro peptide-Melanin and a calfified Pineal Gland. This is the cause of the killing and slaughter of countless millions/billions through the past 400 years. The production of SAVAGES that do not feel when they kill. The production of the only people on the planet that kill for pure sport…..and/or they just don’t understand a thing. The only people on the planet…..SAVAGES. The Black population of Australia have been slaughtered and butchered down to only 1% of the population by the SAVAGE and BARBARIC whites. Yet they comprise over 55% of the prison population! This is the white boys legacy. Almost the complete lack of spirituality in binding all of everything to MONEY. This is not civilization. As Dr. John Henric Clark said “civilization is the act of being civil”. Instead, we have the white boy system of oppression with superfluous wealth sistering abject poverty. This is not civilization….this is simply the best the white boy can do until he attempts to catch up to the level of our magnificent ancestors. The savages are simply trying to hang on but they are slipping fast. This is one reason for the paranoia in locking up the Black populations in prison, multiculturalism by psychotic neanderthals like Advocate. I know better than to argue with the insane. There are no fruits to be gained from trying to teach the calcified/Melaninless empty KILLER mind of a barbaric savage (Advocate, Sherry thing, Wagdi, etc)! However, each time you brothers/sisters enteres a response to one of the neo nazi white supremists I learn something new. Thank you brothers/sisters. All this said, time spent on hate is wasted time and all white people do not fall into this category. However, lets face it, when it comes down to the chase…..if whites have to choose them or us, they will choose their own (as they should). WE CAN AFFORD TO DO NO LESS! Let us all (Blacks) work together for the day the Black men/women do indeed rule the world again! Hotep…THUTMOS TURNER
Thutmos Turner
Compton, CA USA – Saturday, October 30, 1999 at 02:15:57 (EDT)
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“It would seem that this Eve has even reached the popular press and news media. She lived approximately 150,000 to 200,000 years ago and echoes in ouir blood today. The meaning of this is that the diverse race of colors and variations of today are all unfold from a common human or parent stock, who in all likelihood was a small, dark skinned African…The notion of the DNA “mother of humanity” has gained more and more acceptance in modern scientific and intellectual circles.”(((The African Unconsciousness by Edward Bruce Bynum))) So Mr. Advocate maybe it is you and the rest of the white supremist lead individuals who would rather be anything but black who are out of step. Now that Europeans have separated us into different subgroups for their own benefit, they intend to bend and change the rules whenever it best fits them. You claim that Eurasians are all part of the same race, which of course is not Black. Please explain to by what criteria you are classifying these races. Many people who are admittedly of African descent would not be Eurasian; my niece would now be Eurasian. Oh, but no she’s not, because if you saw her on the street you wouldn’t say she was White or Eurasian you would say she was a light skinned American-African. So please, stop the non-sense if you want to be logical the only the only conclusion that can be reached is that we are all different shades of Black. The less melanin in your body the further you are from the original! You cannot hold the trueth down forever!!!
Shekem
USA – Friday, October 29, 1999 at 15:39:40 (EDT)
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Melanin gives Black people superior physical, mental & spiritual ability. Melanin refines the nervous system in such a way that messages from the brain reach other areas of the body most rapidly in Black people, the Original People. Black infants sit, stand, crawl and walk sooner than whites, and demonstarte more advanced cognitive skills than their white counterparts because of their abundance of Melanin. Carol Barnes writes “…your mental processes (brain power) are controlled by the same chemical that gives Black humans their superior physical (atheltics, rhythmic dancing) abilities. This chemical… is Melanin!” The abundance of Melanin in Black humans produces a superior organism physically, mentally and spiritiually. This why all the founders of the world’s great religions are Black. Melanin is the neuro-chemical basis for what is called SOUL in Black people. In the same way Blacks excel in athletics, they can excel in all other areas as well (like they did in the past!) once the road blocks are removed! Is God Black? The Original Man was BLACK, “made in the IMAGE of God” his Parent, according to scared books. Children look like their parents. All the other races are but diluted variations of the Original Black Race.(see pages 7 & 8) Most whites have calcified pineal glands which thwarts Melatonin production, therby limiting their moral capacity. Located in the brain, the tiny pineal & pituitary glands regulate the body’s other glands. Esoteric tradion regards the area of these glands as the third eye, seat of the soul, and the mystical Uraeus represented by the cobra on the forehead of Egyptian royalty/crowns. Why did Africans view the European as a child of God, but the Europeans viewed the African as a soulless savage? Because of “melatonin,” described as a mentally & morally stimulating humanizing hormone produced by the pineal gland. Scientific research reveals that most whites are unable to produce much melatonin because their pineal glands are often calcified and nonfunctioning. Pineal calcification rates with Africans is 5-15%; Asians – 15-25%; Europeans -60-80%! This is the chemical basis for the cultural diffences between Blacks and whites, causing some Black scholars to raise the question that the European approach, that of the logical, erect, ridgid, anti-feeling posture, reflects a left brain orientation and reflects that they lack the chemical key of melatonin to turn on their unconscious and therefore cannot get into feelings. Carol Barnes writes “Melanin is responsible for the existence of civilization, philosophy, religion, truth, justice, and righteousness. Individuals (whites) containing low levels of Melanain will behave in a barbaric manner.” Melanin give humans the ability to FEEL because it is the absorber of all frequencies of energy. Dr. Welsing wrties “Since melanin is a superior absorber of all energy , it is essential to establish this understanding of God and ‘all energy.’ The fact thaat the albinos (whties) lack melanin may also help to explain …why, in the view of many non-white peooples, they (whit4es) lack ‘spirituality” and the capacity to tune in to, and therby establish harmony and justice…” The scientific evidence of Melanin threatens the ideology of white supremacy. After considering Melain to be a “waste” product of body-metabolism which “served no useful function,” Western (white) science has now discovered that Melanin is the chemical key to life and the brain itself! All studies and facts about Melanin suggest that after 400 years of attempting to inferiorize the Black race, “Western science is facing the sobering reality that, by its own self-defined standards, Black people are probably superior to whites in both intellectual potential and muscle coordination.” (Sepia magazine interview). The central role Melanin plays in the body has been “suppressed to maintain the mythological inferiority of blacks…and the defensive clinging to whiteness as some token of superiority.” (Dr. Richard King) The “superiority complex” of white people is a defense mechanism and a mas for their deepset inferiority complex which they project onto people of color. Psychologists say insistent denial means readlity in the opposite way. If whites really believed that white skin was “superior,” why is “tanning”so important in white culture despite its known health risks (thousands die annually from skin cancer). Also, curling or permming lifeless,straight hair, and the lastest; lip injections for a fuller look! And it is the white female who tells you that her ideal mate is “tall, DARK, andhandsome!” “Dark” indeed refers to more Melanin! “Messed-up Melanin” is killing Melanated people! In their ongoing effort to destroy people of color, whites create “designer durgs,” structured to chemically bind with and alter the Melanin molecule, causing it to become toxic and even fatal to highly melanated people! Carol Barnes, who documents this subject writes, “MELANIN can become toxic to the Black human because it combines with harmful drugs such as a cocaine, amphtamines, pyscholic, hallucinoge…marijuana…etc.” The molecules of these drugs resemble the Melanin molecule! The body is fooled and its balance is thrown off as it relieson its drug-wrecked Melanin in order to function. Even legal drugs such astetracyclines, neurolepts (tranquilizers), have strong affinity for bind to Melanin. Herbicides (paraquats,’agent orange’ [dioxin]) bind irreversibly with Melanin & remain in the Black human throughout life causing many disorders. Drug abuse by Blacks is more likely to occur because Melanin causes Blacks to become addicted faster and stay addicted longer from thses drugs which are deliberately placed in Black communites. Drugs are destroying the heart of Native American and Black society, causing many deaths. For more information on the wonders of Melanin: Dr. Richard King’s superb African Origin of Biological Psychiatry and Carol Barnes’ information rich Melanin: The Chemical Key to Black Greatness (C. Barnes, Box 3009189,Houston Texas, 77230). Also the technical paper Melanin, The Organizing Molecule by Dr. Frank Barr, discoverer of Melanin’s organizing ability & other properties (Institute for Study of consciousness (510) 849-4784 /2924 Benvenue Ave., Berkeley CA 94704).
truth teller
USA – Friday, October 29, 1999 at 15:26:26 (EDT)
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Subtil evidences of white supremism in American media from ABCNEWS —– http://www.abcnews.go.com/ABC2000/abc2000tech/inventions_102699.html —— This web page talks about the incredibly amazing things modern scientists think that computers will be able to do (and what humans will be able to using these super computers). It talks of engineering humans to eliminate genetic defects, create computers that can think and FEEL, computers that would be smarter than all of the U.S. population combined. But consider this quote “We can be blonder if we want, and seven feet tall, with longer legs, stronger arms, naturally straighter teeth and naturally curly hair We’ll be handsomer, we’ll be healthier, we’ll be just as smart as we can be.” Blonde is yoked together with height, athleticism, good looks, health, and intelligence, i.e., everything that is deemed good or socially valuable. Why blonde? Why doesn’t it say you can be black-skinned if you want to be, or you can have richer fuller lips? To many this is nit picking, but as a whole it evidences the fact that everything we read, see or hear that comes from mainstream america reenforces the white supremacist viewpoint. I will not stop speaking out against it. Unlike some of the speakers here, I don’t wish (or need) to demean people of European descent to establish the fact that all peoples are of worth and value; and that Black peoples have been denied there rightful spot in history.
Curtis
Age: 27, Brooklyn , NY USA – Friday, October 29, 1999 at 15:11:54 (EDT)
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“Advocate,” I’m breaking my own rule (again) of not trying to educate people like you, but here I go. First, I’m not talking about some white people here or there who just write any ole thing about history, anthropology, and archeology. The white people I am referring to (as for Elam and Sumer) were the original people who excavated the sites. The original (European) people who discovered the Grimaldi said they were negroid (or negritos, eseentially the same thing). Everyone seemed to claim the Grimaldi were black until a few years later when the social and historical ramifications of having Europe inhabited originially by blacks was more than what the Eurocentrists could take. As for the Olmecs, so what if hispanics believe we are stealing their culture. Most hispanics consider themselves Caucasians, or at best Indians. Many who clearly have black ancestry either deny ir or downplay it. The issue is this, every attempt to show that blacks were in fact everywhere, and played a dominant role in establishing many of the centers of ancient civilization, is met with resistance by whites who cannot imagine blacks doing anything but boil people and pots and swing from trees. Americans an many Europeans (not all but most) have a Tarzan mentality, i.e., the white man must come to civilize the wretched savages. Give it up. Once again, your own scholars and original excavaters condemn you. The University of Chicago (Oriental Dept.) has concrete proof that the origin of the Egyptian Pharoanic (sp?) system came from (black) Nubia. Nubians were the first to symbolize their kings with the “Upper Egypt” crown, and the “god” Horus. Egyptian civilization came from (African) Nubia, not (white/asian) Eurasia. The Shang Dynasty artwork condems Mr. Wagdi. He would rather address skull size than to address how these people actually represented THEMSELVES in THEIR artwork. It is sad. Mr. Wagdi, an asian of mixed descent, probably considers himself caucasian, how backwards is that? I don’t dislike whites (Europeans, Scandinavians, Middle Easterners, or any other group) but what I dislike (in fact hate) is misinformation that is used to deny the prominant role black people have played throughout history. You “Advocate” may not be a white supremist is the “Aryan Nation/KKK” sense (but then again maybe you are, I don’t know), but you are a white supremist in the general sense, because almost all Americans are. This nation and it’s media and education systems perpetuated the myth that only caucasians (and sometimes Far East Asians) contributed anything of significance to history, the arts, the sciences, discoveries, etc. When you are led by your national institutions to believe that “Europeans” rescued the “poor dumb africans” from lives of savage cannablism and barbarity (a myth still perpetuated today), then you can not help but be a white supremist. Any one who denies the myth is branded a foolish black man who has to “manufacture” hist history and self-esteem. Stop with the lies already. Quit advocating foolishness and advocate historical accuracy. This is all I have to say to you. Will you listen? I wonder.
Curtis
Age: 27, Brooklyn , NY USA – Friday, October 29, 1999 at 14:52:43 (EDT)
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The Advocate (white person) fails to let one clear fact sink into his Calcified Pineal brain. The fact that “WE DON’T CARE WHAT ANY WHITE PERSON SAID ABOUT ANYTHING”!!!!!!!!! Not speaking for Curtis (whom you so rudely and SAVAGELY) referred to as Citrus, when we refer to white scholars in response to people like you (white neo nazi white supremists), we are simply aware of your limited capacity to function on the higher mental level of our children let alone our scholars. Therefore, we simply refer you to the references of a white persons level and hope you can assimilate just a portion of what our scholars are trying to teach you. It is sad but so true. Again, the fact is that we as self aware and conscious Black people don’t care what you think. You white people are still going around teaching that Christopher (white boy) Columbus discovered America. And you have the nerve to slam Dr. Van Sertima with that trash “Robbing Native America’s Cultures” book. What is your white supremist Christopher Columbus myth if not robbing everybodies culture? Whay don’t you speak out about that? Surely your (white)calcified Pineal and Melanin deficiency does not obstruct clear thinking on this racist white insanity myth! Get a life! THUTMOS TURNER
Thutmos Turner
Compton, CA USA – Friday, October 29, 1999 at 12:16:53 (EDT)
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For those who believe the Shang Chinese resembled black Africans, let me recommend a couple of books: ***Skull Shapes and the Map: Craniometric Analyses in the Dispersion of Modern Homo.*** by the Harvard anthropologist W. W. Howells, and also ***Who’s Who in Skulls. Ethnic Identification of Crania from Measurements.*** by the same author. Howells analyzes the cranial data in many different ways, and the results show, among other things, that the Shang Chinese were clearly Mongoloid variants and were not close to Africans. This supports dental comparisons which classed the Shang as having either the Sinodont or Sundadont dental complex (I forget which one), which is typical of East Asians but is absent in Africa. These studies also put another nail in the coffin of the “Grimaldi Negro” theory – the Grimaldi race was really quite different from Africans.
Maksat Tohme
USA – Friday, October 29, 1999 at 09:58:37 (EDT)
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To Mr. Advocate person: Please don’t refer to Black peoples of any distinction wether past or present as a “lost tribe”. In a previous attempt to educate you, a brother pointed out that you can’t be a lost tribe if you are indigenous. This makes no sense and is simply a “white term” (lost tribe) used to advertise Tarzan movies (a white boy raised by the apes of Africa). Unless you believe a white boy could be raised by apes and become the so-called king of the jungle….stop calling Black inhabitants from anywhere a lost tribe. I have never heard of whites calling white inhabitants of anywhere a “LOST TRIBE”. Can’t white people belong to a lost tribe if there was any such thing? If a group of white people crashed in the desert and did not know where they were would other whites refer to them as a lost tribe of white people? The answer is no! More racism white supremacy at work! Do you believe in Tarzan Mr./Ms. white Advocate person? I hope this has been an addition to your education. THUTMOS TURNER
Thutmos Turner
Compton, CA USA – Friday, October 29, 1999 at 03:13:17 (EDT)
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“Advocate,” get your facts right. No one said anything about “lost” black tribes. They were not lost, but they were everywhere. They are the indigenous peoples. They didn’t just get lost one day and wonder to the uttermost parts of the earth. They were the original explorers. Besides, much of what has been said comes from white scholars. The recent connection between Africans &/or Australaboriginals and South American Indians, and the recent connection between the Shang(Chinese) and the Olmec, were all reported by ABC News, which is a non black-owned media. So whats the problem? Likewise, the fact that the original inhabitants of Sumer, Elam, Egypt, Nubia, and Europe (yes Europe, see the Grimaldi people), were black is based on assertions made primarily (i.e., originally) by white scholars. It was a white scholar who excavated elam and sumeria and made the claim that they were originally black peoples, and the excavation took place from the mid 1800’s to the early 1900’s, way before “Afrocentrism” became a popular term. A famous white (Dutch or German) scholar (whose name escapes me at the moment, Von something or another) also made the connection between blacks and Olmecs. Also, ancient Chinese artwork depicts the original chinese as being black-skinned with coarse hair, sorry if reality hurts. Face it, it is your own fellow Europeans (honest ones, that is) that have helped to prove many of these facts. It’s time to wake up now and let go of your white supremist viewpoints, the evidence is everywhere so deal with it. Curtis
Curtis
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA – Thursday, October 28, 1999 at 15:18:05 (EDT)
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PRAISE GOD!!! You are needed! Thank you so much for telling the truth. My husband and I loved the tape when black men ruled the world. You are a gift divine. Since, my husband and have taken it upon ourselves, to learn more about our magnificent selves. I can say with certainty, my life has been changed forever. Words will not allow me to express,what I feel and how I feel. Since I’ve been enlightened. Keep chipping away, at the blantant lies, that have been forced upon us all. Much love and sincere respect. Mr. & Mrs. Terence D. Mallett
Mrs. Tasha M. Mallett
Age: 29, Milwaukee, WI USA – Thursday, October 28, 1999 at 14:14:00 (EDT)
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If a man knows precisely what he can do to you or what epithet he can hurl against you in order to make you lose your temper, your equilibrium, then he can always keep you under subjection. It is a man’s reaction to things that determines their ability to exercise power over him. – Dr. Howard Thurman
Rodney Jordan
Age: 34, Norfolk, VA USA – Wednesday, October 27, 1999 at 13:46:11 (EDT)
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Trailer trash “SLIME”! We have been “SLIMED” by their mere presence! No…..we don’t want pictures of dead trailer trash white people with blonde wigs posted on this site. This site is not for the trailer trash! Thutmos Turner
Thutmos Turner
Compton, CA USA – Wednesday, October 27, 1999 at 12:27:16 (EDT)
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I just want to say I love what you brothers and sisters are doing. You’re making me real proud. Let the fight continue.
Much Love
Age: 18, USA – Wednesday, October 27, 1999 at 00:30:13 (EDT)
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Please visit the following site, the impact is major. Archeologists comparing Olmec writings with Shang Dynasty Chinese found amazing similarities. They also address the recent discovery proving that blacks (whether African or Austral-Aboriginal) were first in the Americas. As many notable black scholars have attested to, the Shang dynasty was a black dynasty. In various depictions of Shang rulers, (though the eyes are similar to asians) the skin color and hair type was clearly black (perhaps pointing back to the Khoisan and other variations of our people). The archeologists would use this as proof that asians were early visiters to the Americas, but it reinforces the fact that it was black peoples. If the Shang = the Olmec, and both are black, then you draw the conclusion. http://www.abcnews.go.com/ABC2000/abc2000science/newworld991019.html ……. The article is posted below without the pictures.
Curtis
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA – Tuesday, October 26, 1999 at 11:17:30 (EDT)
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This is the actual ABCNews story on the Shang-Olmec relationship (but the site contains pictures that are very helpful, so link to it from the post above)……….. It may be a simple matter of historical chance that this story is not written in Chinese…At least two scholars believe Asians traveled by boat to New World long before Christopher Columbus sailed the ocean blue. Yet another anthropologist recently said water travel permitted Australian aborigines to reach South America more than 11,000 years ago…..These controversial theories have academics debating and individuals wondering if the Pacific Ocean was a superhighway, instead of a barrier, to the New World…..By Land or By Sea?……… The traditional theory on early migration to the Americas says much of the northern hemisphere was covered in ice sheets until glaciers began to break up and sea levels fell about 12,000 to 13,000 years ago. At this time, a land bridge was thought to have formed over the Bering Strait between Siberia and Alaska. Asian hunters tracking big game crossed the bridge in search of dinner. Some, according to the theory, liked their new environs so much they decided to stay…….. A 1997 study published by the National Academy of Sciences appears to support the fact that the New World’s first migrants came from Asia. Researchers studied Native Americans from the Navajo, Chamorro and Flathead tribes and determined that all three groups possess a unique type of retrovirus gene, JCV, found only in China and Japan…….. After the land bridge migration, current dogma teaches that Asia had no further contact with the Americas until the early 1800s, when shipping records prove a handful of immigrants and visitors began to arrive…… Striking Similarities……..But Michael Xu, assistant professor of Chinese Studies at Texas Christian University, is among those who theorize that China had further contact with the Americas before the early 19th century. This jade celt is among those excavated at La Venta, Tabasco, Mexico in 1955 and attributed to the Olmec. The striking similarities between the Olmec and Chinese Shang Dynasty symbols suggest that Chinese may have traveled to the Americas by boat well before the early 19th century. (Photo: Krantz & Martinez/Journal of Shanghai Academy of Social Sciences)……While excavating Mesoamerican sites in the American Southwest and Central America, Xu discovered jade, stone and pottery artifacts attributed to the Olmec, believed to be ancestors of the Maya. Artistic motifs on the objects bear an extraordinary resemblance to Chinese bone inscriptions from the Shang dynasty, about 1600 to 1100 B.C. Symbols for agriculture, astronomy, rain, religion, sacrifice, sky, sun, trees and water are nearly identical, according to a report published in the current issue of the Quarterly Journal of Shanghai Academy of Social Sciences……..“When I first brought my artifacts from the Americas to China, scholars there thought that I just had more samples of Shang writing,” Xu says. “The similarities are that striking.”……..Colonization was not a Chinese priority, according to Xu, which could explain why other aspects of Chinese culture did not spread to the Americas — and why North Americans aren’t speaking Chinese……..Pacific Superhighway……..Betty Meggers, a research archaeologist at the Smithsonian Institution, thinks Asian contact goes back even further, to 5,000 years ago. She has identified compelling similarities between pottery found at a site called Valdivia in Ecuador to pottery from the Jomon period in Japan………Both Meggers and Xu say they believe natural Pacific water flows, such as the Kuroshio from Japan and the Black Current from China, transported boats to the New World. Meggers theorizes that Asians have traveled to and from the Americas for thousands of years……..While there is no direct evidence for regular trade or foreign settlements, Meggers points to other signs of contact, such as similarities between Mayan and southeast Asian pyramids. It is unclear when, or if, the contact ended, but she says, “Ancient man saw the ocean as a superhighway and not as a barrier.”……..Aborigines As Well……..A team of Rio anthropologists also believes early water travel to the Americas was possible. As evidence they point to an 11,500-year-old skull, found in Brazil, which they say belonged to a woman of African or Aboriginal descent. Digital computer imaging last month revealed she had round eyes, a large nose and a pronounced chin — features characteristic of ancient Africans and Aborigines………Ventura Santos, a researcher at Rio’s National Museum and the Federal University of Rio de Janeiro, who led the study, suggests the woman had ancestors related to Australian aborigines who boated across the northern Pacific 15,000 years ago………John Johnson, curator of anthropology at the Santa Barbara Museum of Natural History, is skeptical about the Brazilian skull’s history, and he says he doubts boats at that time could withstand long journeys. But, he says, shorter boat trips along the Pacific coastline seem plausible……..Earlier this year, Johnson used radiocarbon dating to determine that the remains of a skeleton, called Arlington Springs Woman, found on Santa Rosa Island, across the Santa Barbara Channel, were 13,000 years old. “The channel was five to six miles wide then, so I doubt she swam across,” Johnson says. “Some sort of water craft must have been used.”……..DNA May Offer Key Despite such tantalizing evidence as the Arlington Woman or Xu’s Mesoamerican artifacts, it is difficult to prove anyone traveled by water thousands of years ago. Early boats were probably made from wood, reeds and other plant materials that decay easily……..DNA analysis, however, may soon provide the concrete evidence many scholars seek. Johnson hopes to perform DNA research on the Arlington Springs Woman within the next several months, and other related studies are sure to follow. One, or more, of these reports could reveal what traffic was like on “the Pacific Ocean superhighway” thousands of years ago.
Curtis
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA – Tuesday, October 26, 1999 at 11:16:23 (EDT)
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Peace to Mr. Clegg and Staff: I truly am priviledged and honored to have “discovered” your website. Thanks also to “Emerge” magazine for advertising your site,because we know the role of “Black Media” is FIRSTLY to inform our people of both “Our-Story” as well as current events. I overstand that while not one individual scholar,historian,or spiritual/religious teacher may not possess all of the answers,it’s vitally important that as a colective we continue to share and grow in,as my Teacher Dr. Malachi Z. York puts it,”right knowledge,right wisdom,and right overstanding” which leads to “sound right reasoning”!! Although this is my first visit to your website,I assure you it won’t be my last! Thanks again Mr. Clegg and your staff for your excellent work and may “THE NETERU” continue to shine and rain blessings upon you. Peace In The Lamb…Is Truly Wonderful!! Your Brother In The Name Of “AL-KULUWM(THE ALL)” -Johnnie L. Smith-EL(Yuhanna-EL)10/25/99
Johnnie L. Smith-EL
Age: 36, Tampa, FL USA – Monday, October 25, 1999 at 15:28:54 (EDT)
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MAAT NEWS (The Africentric Voice of The Internet) “When Black Men Ruled The World” (Videotape and Booklet) ORDER TODAY! 1-800-788-CLEGG For Back Issues of Ma’at and to Receive MA’AT News via E-Mail SPECIAL BULLETIN October 21, 1999 One of the frequent visitors to our guestbook, Curtis (McWildy 3@hotmail.com), recently posted a reference to an article regarding the discovery, in Brazil, of an ancient woman’s skull with African features. Although unearthed in 1975 from a 43 foot deep cavern in the Brazilian state of Minas Gerais, it had been packed away in the vast archives of the National Museum of Rio DeJanerio for over twenty years.1 Just over a year ago, scientists named the skull, which they believed to be the earliest known American, “Luiza,” after the famed Lucy, one of the most ancient human ancestors discovered in Ethiopia. Luiza is believed to be 11,500 years old, while Lucy is 3.2 million years old. What is startling about this discovery is not so much the fact that an African skull has been unearthed in prehistoric America, but that the normally negrophobic scientific community acknowledges this. Archaeologists Walter Neves, “one of the few specialists in human paleontology in Brazil,” concluded that Luiza’s eyes, nose and chin structures are similar to those of Australian aborigines and native Africans. From the late 1800’s through the middle of the 20th century, Latin American scholars routinely made reference to the presence of Black people in prehistoric and ancient Mexico, Central and South America. However, by the middle of this century White scholars and scientists began to rewrite and monopolize historical works and, in so doing, completely dismissed the idea that Africans or other Black people had reached the Americas before Columbus. In light of the recent discovery of Luiza, we have shall soon republish an early article that we authored which provides theories for the possible origin of Luiza as well as her near and distant relatives. In the meantime, the following are a few quotations taken from books written by Latin American scholars prior to the censoring of these opinions by the White academic thought police: Jose M. Melgar, the first writer to embark on an in-depth study of Black people in early America, began his work while visiting San Andres Tuxtla in the State of Veracruz, Mexico in 1862. Upon learning of the existence of a huge Olmec stone head in this region, Melgar insisted on visiting the hacienda at which the stone carving was located: “We went, and I was struck with surprise; as a work of art it is without exaggeration a magnificent sculpture…, but what astounded me was the Ethiopic type which it represents. I reflected that there had undoubtedly been Blacks in this country and this had been in the first epoch of the world; that head was not only important for Mexican archaeology but also would be for the world in general……..”2 So impressed was Melgar with this Olmec sculptured head that he wrote two articles concerning the early “Ethiopian” migrants whom he insists the sculpture represents. Another Mexican scholar, Nicholas Leon, was of similar opinion: “The oldest inhabitants of Mexico, according to some were Negroes, and according to others, the Otomies. The existence of Negroes and giants is commonly believed by nearly all the races of our soil and in their various languages they had words to designate them. Several archaeological objects found in various localities demonstrate their existence, the most notable of which is the colossal granite head of Hueyapan, Vera Cruz, and an axe of the same located near the city. In Teotihuscan abound little heads of the Ethiopian type and paintings of Negroes. In Michoacan and Oaxaca the same have also been found….. Memories of then in the most ancient traditions convince us to believe that the Negroes were the first inhabitants of Mexico.”3 Historian Riva Palacio has provided more detail regarding the ancient presenceof Black people in the New World: “But who is that aboriginal man, inhabitant of the Valley of Mexico since the most ancient epoch? No doubt in answering, it was the Otomi people. “Nevertheless, the existence of the Black man in our territory gives us material to hesitate. Did he precede the Otomi people or was he the first invader? On the continent that was united to our westside the man was Black and after the separation of the continents this Black man also existed in Asia: in India, invaded by other peoples, the remainder of the Black race sought refuge in the mountains in the central region called Vindhya. Even today these Black men exist: the Glondos, the Kolas, the Bhillas, the Meras of Aravali mountain, the Chitasy, the Minas and the Pahorias whose conquest has given rise to the name Pariahs. “With regard to our continent, scarcely traces of the Black man remain. Proof of his existence was in a very distant epoch. Was he the first in the world and was this the racer that spread everywhere by virtue of the union of the continents, or when he arrived in our region, were the Otomies already present? His disappearance suggests to us it being the exiled race therefore the former; but there are indications opposing the indigenous character of the Otomi race and traditional fact that in our view is very important: until recent times the priests pained themselves Black as if it was a remembrance of the introducers of the first cult. “But the peremptory test of the ancient existence of the Black race on our continent are the still-encountered remains of him, and the other primitive story-tellers that speak of him. They are: the Caracoles of Haiti, the Califurnams of the Caribe Islands, the Arquahos of Cutara, the Aroras or Yaruras of Orinoco, the Chaymans of Guyana, the Maujipas, Porcigas and Matayas of Brazil, the Nigritas, Chuanas or Gaunas of the Isthmus of Darien, the Manabis of Popayan, the Guavas and Jaras or Zambos of Honduras, the Esteros of New California, the Black Indians encountered by the Spainards of Louisiana and the Ojos de Luna and albinos, some of which were discovered in Panama and others destroyed by the Iroquois. “All of this demonstrates that in a very ancient epoch or before the existence of the Otomies or better yet invading them, the Black race occupied our territory when the continents were joined. This race brought its religious ideas and its own cult. Later they were dislodged and forced to the coasts by the Otomies or perhaps they were obliged to look for warm places to which they were more appropriately accustomed by their nature, and fled the freezing temperatures and other cataclysms that occurred after this continent was separated”.4 J.A. Villacorta, another authority on Mexican history, was so convinced that earliest Mexico was influenced by Africoids that he concluded: “De todos modes la civilization mexicana tuvo su origen in Africa”. [“Any way you view it, Mexican civilization had its origins in Africa”.]5 Carlos C. Marquez also spoke of the widespread presence of Black people in prehistoric and ancient America: …..”The Negroes figure frequently in the most remote tradition of some American people. Certain tribes of Darien say that when their ancestors arrived for the first time in that region it was inhabited by small black men who soon afterwards retired to the forests while the Payas and Tapalisas of the Cuna-Cunas origin goes back to a man and two women, one Indian and the other Negro, who lived on the banks of the Tatarcuna. “The ancient skeletons which are very different from the Red American races, and have been found in various places from Bolivia to Mexico, doubtlessly belong to this race. “It is likely, then, we repeat, that long ago the youthful America was also a Negro continent……”5 Footnotes 1 “Brazil Unveils ‘Luiza’ As Earliest known American,” http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/reuters 19990922_1496.html. 2 Jose Melgar, “Notable Escultural; Antigua, Antiguedades Mexicanos”, Boletin de Geografia y Estadistica, Secunda Epoca, vol 1, pp. 292-297, 1869. Also see Jose Melgar, “Estudio Sobre la Antiguedad y el Origen de la Cabeza Colosal de Tipo Etiopico que Esiste en Hueyapan”, Boletin de la Sociedad Mexicana, Secunda Epoca., vol 3, pp 106-109, 1871. 3 Quoted in J.A,. Rogers, Sex & Race, published by the author, New York, 1943, vol 1, p. 270. 4 Riva Palacio, Mexico a’ Trave’s de los Siglos, Ballesca y Comp., Editores, Mexico, p. 63, 1889. 5 Jose Antonio Villacorta, Argueologia guatemalteca (Guatemala, C.A., Tipografia. nacional, 1930), p. 336. Also see Prehistoria & Historia Antigua de Guatemalteca (Guatemala C.A. Tipografia nacional, 1938), pp 222-239. 6 Carlos C. Marquez, Estudios argueologicas y etnograficos (Mexico: Bogota, D.E. Editorial Kelly, 1956), pp. 179-180. Legrand H. Clegg, Publisher and Editor MAAT Newletter
Legrand H. Clegg II
USA – Monday, October 25, 1999 at 14:57:48 (EDT)
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Ms. Iskander Wagabi…..you are proably no more from Tanta, Egypt than I am (probably from somewhere in Simi Valley). The Aryan part of Simi Valley!!!!!! Anyway, this Wagdi person totally ignores “ALL” evidence that cannot be refuted and she commences headlong with wacked out theories supporting white supremacy (blonde mummies and European origins), etc. Not only that, but she attacks the nicest people on the net…..me (Thutmos Turner). Nevertheless, the Rahotep and Nofret (the Aryan’s “WAGDI” dream) statues are once again “FORGERIES”! I know of several people that regularly visit this site who have the vital information that exposes the Rahotep and Nofret cheap racist white supremist attempt to re-write our BLACK hisory. Either I or they will be posting the particulars shortly. Call me anything……but DON”T CALL ME WHITE! Also, don’t call my ancestors white (that is the ultimate insult). That is as bad as some people trying to say the face of the Sphinx is that of a white boy (which has been said on this site recently). Thurmos Turner
Thutmos Turner
Age: 52, Compton, CA USA – Monday, October 25, 1999 at 01:37:31 (EDT)
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LOL!!!!
X-Dude
USA – Sunday, October 24, 1999 at 22:37:43 (EDT)
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Oh by the way, this information also agrees with the MDS plot, perhaps the MDS plot should be looked at in the reverse situation.
Kwabena Adofo Danquah
Minneapolis, MN USA – Saturday, October 23, 1999 at 14:20:58 (EDT)
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Iskander, if you were to continue reading you would see that Blackfacts also said that Kemet was “predominately Black.” You would also see that he says “And in many[pictures] the Nubians are portrayed with black skin and very kinky hair. The Egyptians are portrayed with reddish brown skin and VARIOUS hair types–straight and kinky. But, having red-brown skin DOES NOT make the Egyptians non-black or non-African! All Africans DO NOT have jet black skin. In fact, the portrayal of Nubians in this manner is common during a certain New Kingdom period.” So your claim that being able to post pictures is invalid. You keep making reference to genetics. In fact, go to this site: http://sgwww.epfl.ch/berger/First/english/start_egypt.html and you will see a picture of Shekem Tutankhamen and tell me if he Black or White. Mr. Wagdi, did you read the post by Blackfacts on Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 13:12:23 (EDT). It is obvious that you didn’t. You should refrain from posting until you have completely read it because you are going to have us going around in circles. Mr. Wagdi, are you making reference to dental evidence? Did you go to the webpage that Blackfacts referred you to? Let me give it to you again: http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Temple/9845/mummies.htm and go to the links if you are truly someone who is interested in the trueth and not someone who wants to perpetuate the idea of the superior white race. Here is a quote from there: “The cranial shape displayed by the New Kingdom royal mummies is most commonly found among inhabitants of the Nile and the south Sahara. The skull of Thutmose IV shows some peculiarities regarding the sagittal contour and occiput in the lateral view (profile).” Here is another one about your proposed dental evidence(SN mandibular plane:”In the study of Alexander and Hitchcock of Alabama populations, the AA norm for SN-Mand. was 34.4 compared to 32.0 for Caucasians. The average for the Pharaohs is 34.23. If one includes the New Kingdom Queens the mean is 35.83! (Alexander TL, Hitchcock HP. Cephalometric standards for American Negro children. Am J Orthod 1978;74:298-304)” You say that the people are more closely related to West Asia or Southern Europe. Well of course they do, didn’t you know that Arabs and Berbers came to reside in Egypt. Am I correct in saying that you are assuming that the Kamau were white? Please go back and read Mr. Wagdi, because “There is a hell of alot of evidence against you and anyone who looks into the subect more deeply(look beyond” Brace et al) “would have to come to the same conclusion.” Or perhaps you think they are dark whites, Mediterraneans, or Hamites? “In reality the “true African” does not exist as the continent holds a variety of different Black Africoid types who have existed this way without foreign admixture. There are Black Africans with somewhat straight hair, thin lips and elongated noses (a product of dry heat as well as extreme cold). If globally applied many of African descent throughout the Diaspora can be labeled Dark Whites or Eurafricans.” And Furthermore, “Black Africans were well known in the Nile Valley region in early times. Evidence has shown in fact that North Africa was inhabited by Black African types prior to other types (Caucasian Berber and Semitic). What is more, as Gloria Emeagwali states, The Northern regions of Cote d’Ivoire, Ghana, Nigeria, Niger, Chad, and Cameroon as well as Senegal, Guinea, Mali, Burkina Faso and so on fall within the Saharan/Sahelian zone, which is the same latitude with the Nile civilizations of Antiquity. No impassable barrier stood or stands between East and West. Thus it stands to reason that no barrier stood between North and South. Cultural similarities have been found between Egypt and regions as far away as the Great Lakes region. The ancient Egyptians state continually that they originated in the south. According to historian John G. Jackson, The Edfu Text is an important source document on the early history of the Nile Valley. This famous inscription, found in the Temple of Horus at Edfu, gives an account of the origin of Egyptian civilization. According to this record, civilization was brought from the south by a band of invaders under the leadership of King Horus.” http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Classroom/9912/egyptians.html So Iskander, you are wrong and has some intelligence would agree.
Mackens Audena
USA – Friday, October 22, 1999 at 17:11:48 (EDT)
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Rahotep & Nofret, (the Aryans dream) is indeed a forgery. I have seen detailed presentations on it with my own eyes. Why did they pick these two characters anyway? The fact is that “THEY WERE NOT ROYALTY AT ALL”. The savage trailer trash just pulled them our of thin air for parading all over the world. They were not royaly or sat on any ancient throne. Down with the barbarian savages! THUTMOS URNER
Thutmos Turner
Age: 52, Compton, CA USA – Friday, October 22, 1999 at 03:11:54 (EDT)
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TRUTH never rejects questions or challenges because it is ETERNAL. This statement should be focused on in the context of what has been happening at this website over the past ten days. In spite of the fact that this is an Africentric website, we are so confident of the truth of our stance that we have welcomed the opinions of outsiders. They often insult us, call us racists, ignore our evidence and opinions and then insist that they are right. Yet, we continue to permit them to express themselves while we respond with our viewpoints. Some of us have angrily insulted them in return. This is understandable; however, most of us have patiently read their rantings and ramblings and then, again patiently, responded with counter-evidence. WHAT BLACK PEOPLE MUST UNDERSTAND IS THIS: For nearly three hundred years now, White scientists and scholars have monopolized the writing and teaching of history without challenge. Their overriding theme has been the superiority of Europeans over all others and European preeminence on the world stage from time immemorial. This distorted view of the world has held sway for the following reasons: (1) It has been taught on virtually all university and college campuses; (2) Most major publishing houses have only printed books promoting White supremacy; (3) Magazines, journals newspapers, television and radio have perpetuated the same lies and misrepresentations; (4) Dissenting opinions have been completely rejected to the point where even letters to newspaper and magazines have been excised or censored. Now, fast forward to today: (1) Over the past ten years, every major newspaper and magazine in this country has attacked Africentrism without providing its proponents an opportunity to present their points of view (This is virtually unprecedented in America media forums); (2) White historical websites predominate over the internet and, in virtually all cases, if one introduces a Black perspective on history, he is sure to be barred, purged or dismissed; (3) In spite of the global domination of Eurocentrism in education, the general media and now the Internet, many White people (and Arabs who are attempting to defend their interloper status in Africa) cannot tolerate the fact that we, as people of Africa descent, are determined to tell our story from our perspective. Just think of this: White people control world thought on most issues, but, in spite of this, they cannot bear to believe that we are willing to think for ourselves. If you review the comments that have been entered in this guestbook over the past ten days, you might reasonably conclude that “Well, clearly there are two points of view here, two schools of thought. Reasonable people may differ in their viewpoints.” But, no, White scholars and scientists must have it all and control it all! From their perspective, there is no room for dissent. Why else would they spend so much time venting in our venues, when, because of their blatant insecurities, they will not even allow Black dissent to be expressed in any of their national or international media forums? White authorities have maintained for three centuries that Black people are “small brained, genetically inferior sub-humans with no history.” Now incensed over our independence of thought, they exclaim on these pages: “How dare you fight back!” Well, Sherry, Iskandar, et al, the days of White supremacy and monopoly are over!!! We have presented sufficient facts to support our views, whether you agree or not. White people represent less than 10% of the world’s population and Arabs represent far less than that! There is no reason why your tiny minority opinion, no matter how well funded or widely disseminated, should monopolize the global mind or stifle further inquiry. The only real threat to the revelation of the true history of the human race is Eurocentrism/White supremacy. Why haven’t you fought this bane of the human race? The reason is because your role is to perpetuate it, and that is why our site and countless others will continue to grow-until the last vestige of racist nonsense is uprooted from the earth. In the meantime, we shall return from time to time to offer responses to these irrational racists. In the present posting we present an excerpt from an article entitled, “Kemet: The Place of The Blacks As symbolized In the Medu Netcher (Hieroglyphs) and Related Issues,” that appeared in our MA’AT newsletter in January, 1998. We shall follow this up with postings on the sculptures of Rahotep and his wife, mentioned by Iskander, and the painting from the tomb of Ramesis III, also mentioned by Iskander. Dr. W.E.B. Du Bois, one of the greatest scholars of the 20th century, wrote the following in his book, The World and Africa: “We may give up entirely, if we wish, the whole attempt to delimit races, but we cannot, if we are sane, divide the world into whites, yellows, and blacks, and then call blacks white.” White scientists and scholars have had a heyday defining and redefining races according to their own racist predilections, without regard for logic or any other defensible paradigms. Hence, their disciples congregate in this space and offer to us nonsense about blonde mummies and blue eyed Egyptians and scoff at us when we question their sanity. If White science is unscientific, why should we expect its followers to be less so? In any case, as we enter the 21st century, we as people of African descent must return integrity to the study of history. It is our responsibility, as direct descendants of the parents of the human family, to rise above the shortcomings of the White monopolists and, drawing upon all of the resources at our disposal, i.e., astronomy, architecture, art, language, sacred writings, anatomy, archaeology, genetics, etc., present a fair and objective picture of the history of the human race. Since we know that Black people have played a significant part in that history, this site is devoted to telling the story of African people and their descendants. The following, then, is an excerpt from an article that presents the Africentric definition of Kemet. We certainly hope that the brilliant scholar, who identifies himself as Blackfacts, will provide input regarding this, since he has expressed concerns about the definition of this word. “Kemet is what the ancient people of the Nile Valley called what is erroneously known as ‘Ancient Egypt.’ According to European egyptologists Egypt is a Greek word, a corruption of the city name ‘He ka Ptah’ (city of Ptah). The word Egypt was not used until 300 b.c.e., after the conquest of Kemet by Alexander, son of Phillip of Macedonia. In books by European egyptologists, Kemet is translated as “the black land,” in an attempt to state that the people named their country after the soil that resulted from the annual inundation of the Nile River. This is not the translation that the texts themselves show us. Before looking at the correct meaning of the word Kemet, a brief description of the way Medu Netcher operates will be provided. Medu Netcher is a highly complex language that exists on many levels. It is pictorial (ideograms), symbolic (determinatives), and phonetic (phonograms) at the same time. Any symbol could be pictorial (used to represent itself). Determinatives are generally used at the end of words to help clarify meaning. There are three types of phonograms: 1. monoliterals (one sign, one sound), 2. biliterals (one sign, two sounds), and 3. triliterals (one sign, three sounds). Monoliterals are also used as phonetic complements. A phonetic complement is used as a reading aid; it may be placed before or after a bi- or triliteral as a visual reminder or reinforcement of the pronunciation of the word shown. This is the word Kemet [Image]. The first symbol, a piece of charred wood (some say a crocodile’s spine), is the biliteral “km.” The owl symbolizes the monoliteral “m,” used in this instance as a phonetic complement. The third symbol is a loaf of bread, the monoliteral “t.” The last symbol, a determinative, is very important for our discussion of this word. This symbol depicts an aerial view of a circular walled settlement displaying a network of roads. Here the symbol is drawn in abstract which has been reduced to the two principal axes [Image]. These types of cities have been unearthed in excavations in Upper Kemet dating from the oldest epochs of urbanization. Also this symbol has been documented on predynastic palettes. This symbol is very easily distinguished from the symbol for land, [Image]ta, which represents the flat plain of the valley that is often painted black to represent the fertile soil. It invokes the idea of Ancient Kemet, the black flood plain, the gift of the Nile; which is quite different from the concept of Kemet as the civilized Country of the Blacks, which is the literal translation of the word [Image]Kemet in Medu Netcher. One concept represents the land given to the Ancient Africans by God, and the other represents the country as a civilized unit developed by the Africans themselves. As shown in Alan Gardiners’ Egyptian Grammar book, [Image]is a naturally occurring symbol, and is a [Image]man-made symbol. Therefore it is not possible to correctly state that they mean the same thing; undeveloped land is different than developed land. When the people wanted to describe themselves, they used the same symbols, Kmt, but they changed the determinative to a seated man and woman, placed in front of the plural sign (three vertical strokes), indicating a collective nominative, referring to “human beings,” “people,” “ethnic groups,” which taken in total can only be translated as [Image]”Black People.” Most Europeans translate this word as “Egyptians.” It is obvious that anyone who has studied the language of Kemet and continues to translate these words as “Egypt” or “Egyptian,” is purposely attempting to mislead and misinform. The proper translation of classical African languages is part of the work that must be done in order to “construct a body of modern human sciences, in order to renovate African culture.”(7) Footnotes 1. Sir Alan Gardiner, Egypt of the Pharaohs, Oxford University Press, 1961, pg. 19. 2. Adolf Erman, Life in Ancient Egypt, Dover Publications, Inc., 1971, pg. 29. 3. Ibid. pg. 30. 4. Theophile Obenga, “Genetic Linguistic Connections of Ancient Egypt and the Rest of Africa,” in African Intellectual Heritage: A Book of Sources, ed. by Molefi Kete Asante and Abu S. Abarry, Temple University Press, 1996, pg. 266. See also Theophile Obenga, Ancient Egypt and Black Africa: A Student’s Handbook for the Study of Ancient Egypt in Philosophy, Linguistics, and Gender Relations, Kamak House, 1992. 5. Ibid. pg. 281. 6. Ibid. pg. 271. The spiritual system of Kemet laid the foundation for Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. See also Who Is This King of Glory?, by Alvin Boyd Kuhn, Kessinger Publishing Co., Christianity Before Christ, John G. Jackson, and The Book Your Church Doesn’t Want You To Read, ed. by Tim Leedom. 7. Cheikh Anta Diop, Civilization or Barbarism: An Authentic Anthropology, Lawrence Hill Books, 1991, pg. 3. copyright 1998 CHEIKH ANTA DIOP INSTITUTE OF EGYPTOLOGY AND AFRICAN CIVILIZATIONS To learn more about Medu Netcher, The Cheikh Anta Diop Institute of Egyptology and African Civilization is proud to offer the book, Let the Ancestors Speak: Removing the Veil of Mysticism from Medu Netcher, by Ankh Mi Ra. The price of the book is $19.95, and ordering instructions may be obtained by e-mail from netcher@juno.com. A correspondence course is also available. Legrand H. Clegg II, Editor and Publisher, MA’AT news, The Clegg Series.
Legrand H. Clegg II
USA – Friday, October 22, 1999 at 00:30:43 (EDT)
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not that ancestor was a memeber of the Khoisan complex of Southwest Africa. There is no race, except the Human race. We are all Black African people in genetic composition.
Kwabena Adofo Danquah
Minneapolis, MN USA – Thursday, October 21, 1999 at 20:39:01 (EDT)
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If the Egyptians had soft blond or red hair, why did they wear wigs that look like black african cornrolls. Why are the wigs curly like naps, and not straight like the Aryan stereotype. In fact why do they where the wigs at all, when they look so black African in nature. I wonder……Also check out the profile of the Sphinx, it looks “negroid to me.” This actual image of the Sphinx was posted on a plastic surgery center website. http://www.plasticsurgery4u.com/proceedure_folder/nasal_deformity_sphinx.html#anchor_sphinx
Curtis
USA – Thursday, October 21, 1999 at 16:48:55 (EDT)
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If
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Check out royal scribe Hesire, and King Zoser (click on the 1/2 image size and notice the profile); some of the others are admittedly ambigous at best. But at least I’m willing to link to everything. All of the images on the “Egyptians are not Black” web page that the “arab” dude keeps linking to, are also found here. Notice the tan on the Nordic Rahotep, not bad for someone who should be 20 shades lighter than that. http://rubens.anu.edu.au/new3/charlotte/bycountry/display00131.html
Curtis
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA – Thursday, October 21, 1999 at 16:21:29 (EDT)
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Check out royal scribe Hesire, and King Zoser (click on the 1/2 image size and notice the profile); some of the others are admittedly ambigous at best. But at least I’m willing to link to everything. All of the images on the “Egyptians are not Black” web page that the “arab” dude keeps linking to, are also found here. Notice the tan on the Nordic Rahotep, not bad for someone who should be 20 shades lighter than that. http://rubens.anu.edu.au/new3/charlotte/bycountry/display00131.html
Curtis
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA – Thursday, October 21, 1999 at 16:20:39 (EDT)
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Rahotep & Nofret, the Aryans dream. I’m posting them anyway because even though Rahotep doesn’t look black, he sure is dark for an Aryan. Also, in one of Van Sertima’s books on Egypt, someone wrote a detailed (though preliminary) article on why he thought these images either forgeries. I’m not saying he is right, but we should consider the possiblity. I’ll try to get the name of the book and the pages so that all of you can check it out for yourselves. It is very interesting. Also some archeologists ascribe a much later date to this sculpture, and I’m talking about whites not blacks. But here is the link to the images http://rubens.anu.edu.au/new3/charlotte/bycountry/display00130.html
Curtis
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA – Thursday, October 21, 1999 at 16:16:07 (EDT)
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Wow, look at how “Aryan” Amenophis III looks; and i thought Aryans had sharp noses and then lifts. Now I realize that Aryans must be negroes. Thanks to the neo-nazis my eyes have been open. http://rubens.anu.edu.au/new3/charlotte/bycountry/display00128.html —- Also look at the “Portrait of an elegant lady” from the Tomb of Menena in Thebes. I never knew Aryans had black skin.
Curtis
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA – Thursday, October 21, 1999 at 16:10:49 (EDT)
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Look at Semenkhkara & the Princess Meritaten; or Akhenaten. If these are Nordics then all “negroid” peoples are. Click on the link that says “1/2” for the biggest images. http://rubens.anu.edu.au/new3/charlotte/bycountry/display00127.html
Curtis
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA – Thursday, October 21, 1999 at 16:07:02 (EDT)
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“Goddess” Hathor (won’t tell ya what I think) http://rubens.anu.edu.au/cgi-bin/jreduce.pl/new3/charlotte/0349/034906.JPG/2 —– What about Seti I, he doesn’t look very Nordic to me. —– King Horebheb looks like many of the black men here in New York (admit it) http://rubens.anu.edu.au/cgi-bin/jreduce.pl/new3/charlotte/0351/035107.JPG/2
Curtis
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA – Thursday, October 21, 1999 at 16:04:41 (EDT)
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All of these image links are from the Australian National University (and no, it is not run by the aboriginals). Look at Akhnaton, looks black to me. http://rubens.anu.edu.au/new3/charlotte/bycountry/display00125.html ——- look at the profile of the Sphinx (looks black to me) http://rubens.anu.edu.au/new3/charlotte/bycountry/display00124.html
Curtis
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA – Thursday, October 21, 1999 at 16:00:52 (EDT)
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Look at this website containing Egyptian sculptures. It is by no means Afrocentric (it doesn’t even address the issue to my knowledge. http://rubens.anu.edu.au/new3/charlotte/bycountry/display00129.html . Again, notice how even if the bust of nefertiti is real it is more Ethiopic than anything “caucasian.” Also, look at the images of Sesostris I and Mentuhotep I, they look black african to me. Metherthy may not be black, but then again, he is a farmer, not a royal. —-
Curtis
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA – Thursday, October 21, 1999 at 15:56:22 (EDT)
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About the bust (sculpture) of Nefertiti. There are hundreds of images on the walls of various Egyptian archeological sites depicting her purely as black African. On top of that, the well-known (white) historian John Anthony West says this about the bust “The famous bust of Nefertiti, Akhenaton’s wife and one of the most beautiful women ever depicted, is in all likelihood not Nefertiti. This bust was found with other treasures, in the abandoned sculpture studio at Akhenaten. Since Nefertiti disappeared from the inscriptions some seven years prior to the disbanding of Akhenaton’s city, the bust, unfinished at the time and still being worked on, is almost certainly not Nefertiti, but perhaps one of her daughters.” Perhaps one of her daughters, he says. But that in itself is mere (and inaccurate) speculation given all of the other evidences. But lets say the bust in dispute is real, it most definitely isn’t nordic. There is no blond hair, blue eyes, or pale skin. She looks far more like an Ethiopian (Somali, Eritrean, i.e.) variation of black Africans than anything close to be nordic, or any other white racial group. Give it a rest already. This is the same bust Hitler used to make his point. It is so moronic it is sad.
Curtis
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA – Thursday, October 21, 1999 at 15:47:17 (EDT)
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I think Ive worked out how the cocked up half baked arab we know as Iskander brian works.You see the arabs are one of the most anti black racist people you will ever meet.In the koran Mohamad said that white people were created by the right hand of allah from pure water and that black folks were created by his left hand and were a mistake.That is is why moslems use their right hand for eating and their left hand for wiping their backsides.I know it seems sick but it is totally true,moslems have thought black people to hate themselves.A good examample of this are the Swahili who are as black as you and me but a large number of them claim to be arabs others even claim to be persians and indians.So any brother who claims islam is the black manns religion should maybe learn a little more about from were and who its coming from.The arabs took the indiginus black people of Kemit(our ancestors not yours mr wagdu)and sold them to the white man who brought to America.So you see Mr Wagdu has his Egypt but Kemit belongs to the black peoples. And Mr wagdu wants to be an Aryan well of coarse he does because as I said before muslems are anti black so for them theyd rather be anything but a nigger.
Osiris
USA – Thursday, October 21, 1999 at 14:27:02 (EDT)
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I can see that the person who posted this IS REALLY FROM EGYPT. He knows as I do the writing is ALL on the WALLS within the pyramids. Half of you black wanna be egyptians never even been to Egypt…yet you make such claims…when in reality, you dont know your black ass from a hole in the ground.READ THE FACTS: Here are some links to interesting pictures,http://members.xoom.com/egyptians/images/index.html Most of the pictures here are from the old kingdom, they clearly show Nofret daughter of Khufu was fair skinned and had blue eyes, the man seated beside her is her husband Rahotep.The picture at the top of the page of a fairly overweight man is Hemiunu.Heminunu oversaw the building of Khufu’s pyramid, but hang on a minute the ancients were black, why would a Caucasian oversee the building of the pyramids (which you argue were the results of black genius)and why does Khufu’s daughter have such a light complexion? Why?Well ether theres a conspiracy where the evil Egyptians/Arabs(who are apparently are not Egyptian at all but asiatics) and evil devil white men have destroyed all the original artifacts and replaced them with fakes, because they are afraid of the mighty black africans (who also happened to invent everything ever worth inventing in history)rising up from the sorry state their people are in and taking over the world or perhaps due to the society which Afro-Americans live in, which is riddled with racism they/you need to have a feeling of superiority,greatness and a belief you are decended from kings and queens, just because you have a massive chip on your shoulder and no self-confidence.It makes sence for you to blame others for your problems.In fact you lot have alot in commom with the Nazis, just like they blamed the Jews for all Germanys problems and made up a false history of an ancient Aryan race whho throughtout history the Jews were trying to destroy.Just replace the Jews with Arabs and whites,the German race with the black race and the ancient Aryans with the ancient Egyptians and you have a new master race full of brainwashed automaton’s.It is very important that history dosent repeat itself because we all know what happened to the Jews last time around.(this is directed only at people like Thutmos Turner and Osiris who in below posts have used some vulgar and extremely offensive language which I will not repeat.So if your hear for a genuine love and interest in history please do not be offended) The genetic tests I posted below show that the ancients(my ancestors,and yes I am Egyptian and proud)had much more in common with the mediterranean peoples of Europe and Asia than Ethiopians.Actually the Portugese are more closly related to black africans in genetic terms than us Egyptians(Modern Indians are more closly related to Etiopians and Somalis than the people of Predynastic upper Egypt). I made it clear the meaning of the Greek word melanchroies so I will not go into that again. Herodotus compared the Egyptians to “Colchians”-were the Colchians black Africans. The Colchians inhabited what is roughly modern-day Georgia in the Caucasus, so the vast majority were most likely — and quite literally — CAUCASIAN.Herodotus’ exlanation that being melanchrroes or oulutrches “indeed counts for nothing, since other peoples are, too” suggests that these adjectives did not apply exclusively to any one “race” of people.The description of Colchians by Herodotus can be contrasted with that of Hippocrates,who wrote of the Colchians in Phasis”have an appearance different from that of other men.As to size,they are large and corpulent in body.Neither joint nor vein is evident.They have a yelloish flesh, as if victims of jaundice”(Hippocrates,Airs,Waters,Places 15).Nothing in Hippocrates, descrition suggests that Colchians look anything like sub-Saharan Africans and this further wekens the Afrocentric argument that Egyptians and Colchians must have looks like “blacks” on the basis of Herodotus’ Words. Also when Herodotus,other classical writer and the Ehtiopians said that Egypt was a colony of Ethiopia thay were not lying.If you remember the 25th dynasty was of Ethiopian origin and only a couple of hundred years before Herodotus visited Egypt ,Egypt was ruled from Napata in the heart of Nubia/Ethiopia(Afrocentrists twisting the truth again). Other ancient quotes cited by Afrocentrists Other ancient quotes that some Afro-Egyptocentrists interpret in such a way as to conflict with other descriptions such as the ones I quoted before.These are marred by basically the same failings as the Herodotus quote described above in interpreting Greek words such as mlanchroes as “negro”, and failing to recognize stereotypes and exaggerations.Using the same faulty techniques, Afrocentrists might as well say Jews in the Middle Ages were “black”(I wouldnt be surprised if they did) because Joeeph ben Nathan in the 13th centuary quoted his father as saying “we Jews come from a pure,white source, and so our faces are black”.Of course to do this would igore the fact that in medieval Europe as in ancient Greece,”black” often meant “swarthy”.Likewise Afrocentrists could insist that 12th centuary Turks were “black” on the basis of their being exaggerated as “blacker than pitch or ink” in the epic Chanson d’Aspremont.But we know on the basis of physical remains and ample pictorial evidence that neither the Jews nor Turks were actually “black” in medieval times. Heres interesting information about the picture (can be seen in in most Afrocentric books)that Afrocentrics say is proof that the Egyptians saw themselves as looking the same as Nubians/Kushites/Ethiopians can be found at http://www.deja.com Subject:Re:photos of “black Egyptians” Date: 1999/05/11 Author:Bernard Ortiz de Montellano Civilization: Dear Paul, Those figures in the Lepsius Erganzungsband,pl.48 are not actually Lepsius’ work, but a re-edition done in 1913, as Ishowed in my article in Egypt in Africa(Bloomington,IM:Indiana University Press, 1997).To make matters worse , the hieroglyph texts between these figures were garbled.The original scenes both in Sety the 1st’s tomb and in Ramesses the 3rd’s tomb showed the Egyptians and the Kushites as distinctly different.Also, the hieroglyphs on the real walls are distributed between each of the four figures depicting each type.You can now view the real photographs of both the Sety the 1st and Ramesses the thirds walls in Hornung’s volumes on the valley of the Kings.I have been inside both tombs myself and have seen these scenes and their texts, and on the basis of this, the depiction in Erganzungsband is not the real depiction of what is on the walls but rather a pastische, arranged from Lepsius’ notes and garbled in the process.It is unfortunate that so many people have depended on this depiction as reality, when a look at the walls in both tombs shows that patently it is not reality. Most sincerly Frank J.Yurco ***** Regards http://members.xoom.com/egyptians/images/smiting.html Picture of Ramesses the second smiting a Libyan,Nubian/Ethiopian and a Asiatic.Notice how the artist used the same pigment for Ramesses as he did for the Asiatic,think about that!Now compare the facial features of Ramesses to the Nubian and the Asiatic,notice how Ramesses looked almost complestly like the Asiatic apart from the beard.I know its only a picture but I think its fairly obvious that Ramesses was not black, further weakening the Afrocentric arguement. http://members.xoom.com/egyptians/images/prisoner.html This is a picture of an Nubian/Ethiopian Captive.Take a look closly does he look Egyptian, I dont think so and if dont agree I think you should probably see an optician. P.S.Its a pity pictures cant be posted on this page I could probably end this debat hear and now.And as I said more to come incluning quotes,dental and hair evidence and more genetic tests.
Laughing in Your Face
Black liars world-wide r exposed, USA – Thursday, October 21, 1999 at 11:42:11 (EDT)
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To the (mythological) “Aryans;” not that it ultimately matters, but I am still awaiting the answer to the following question. What did the Nordic peoples (Germanic, Aryan, Scandinavian, etc.) contribute in terms of science, culture, or the arts BEFORE 1000 A.D.. Please don’t tell me what the “Mediterraneans” did or “Hamites,” or the southern Europeans, the Eastern Europeans, the Semitic Peoples, the Sumerians, Elamites, Indians, Romans or Greeks (all of whom are not Nordics according to Hitler & the neo-nazis). Tell me what the berserker nations, the vikings, the “Aryan”/Nordics ever did. Their math and mathematical symbols are not their own, their alphabet is not their own, even their science and arts are not their own. Why did the Romans consider them Barbarians (Me thinks because they were). Why are vikings (Nordics) associated with raping, pillaging, murder, and mayhem. Why do we have images of them in bearskins (from whence the term berserker originates). Why do so many neo-nazi groups continue to this very day, to identify themselves along with the berserkers and the vikings. What did they ever do to “advance civilization.” I suspect that i will never get a valid answer. Also consider the pyramids in the Americas. They rival the Egyptian pyramids in some aspects. Were the American Indians white aryans? You probably think so. — Listen, all people are created equal in God’s eyes, so the question is moot. But from an historical perspective, your own fellow Europeans, as well as the inhabitants of the rest of the world testify against you. “Nordics” have to foster the myth of their superiority because they know that all of history (up until the middle ages or so) indites them as being amongst the most savage and UNcivilized of the peoples of the world. This is all so very sad.
Curtis
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA – Thursday, October 21, 1999 at 10:41:34 (EDT)
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Mr. Bridges, may I be so bold as to add this book is only about $17.00 and is in paperback form. THUTMOS TURNER
Thutmos Turner
Age: 52, Compton, CA USA – Thursday, October 21, 1999 at 03:22:02 (EDT)
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Hello to all that are interested in expanding their knowledge base. I have recently fell across a book by the name of Ancient and Modern Britons by David MacRitchie. In it he discuses the original inhabitants of Europe and Briton as being Moors (aka black, negroe, african-american.) He also in several passages discusses the fact that these same people founded other civilizations including Egypt. If anyone cares to challenge me on this first obtain a copy of the book read it. Oh, by the way the book was originally written in the 1800’s by a white man from the UK who looked deeply into the history of his own land. Salaam.
Henry Bridges
Age: 25, USA – Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 23:05:14 (EDT)
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Brothers and sisters, I admit I may have exaderated a bit when I referred to the Sherry thing and her fellow neo nazi Black haters as Australopithicus savages. Australopithicus was of course an ape like humanoid who lived more than 5 million years ago and never left Africa and died out about 1 million years ago. This is evidence that they are not Austrolopithicus. The same for Homo habilis in extenction for 1.6 million years. I was in error. I now estimate these people to be of Homo erectus (upright man) with a larger brain capacity and was the first to leave Africa ad thought to be extenct 1.7 million years. Theory has it that a few of them strayed a were caught behind the polar icecaps. Wallah…..the Sherry thing and her neo nazi kinsman polluting this site. Can you imagine the barbarians of Europe building the 65 foot monument of Ramesse II? Again, where are the European monuments? We know of all the “AFRICAN” monuments, cities, libraries, pyramids, etc. etc. WHERE ARE THE EUROPEAN ACHIEVEMENTS OF THIS ERA???????? Where are they? The question will never be answered through all eternity! Did the whites pack them all up and transplant them in Africa? Did all the smart people leave Europe and settle in Africa? Never-mine the monuments….just show us the evidence they even had a system of writing! SAVAGES amongst us! THUTMOS TURNER
Thutmos Turner
Age: 52, Compton, CA USA – Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 22:41:17 (EDT)
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Brother Kwabena, thank you for exposing the so-called Iskander Wagdi. This may translate to “I AM A NEO NAZI WHITE BOY”. One of the site this trailer trash referred to is a site called “The Ancient Egyptians Were Not Black”. This is so weak that it is almost entertaining. Imagine….a site created just for people of this ilk to attempt convincing people that we don’t have a heritage othewr than slavery. Notice the savages can never tell you our origin but they can tell you what our origin is not! To enter this subject would make fools of their crimminally insane ramblings. THUTMOS TURNER
Thutmos Turner
Age: 52, Compton, CA USA – Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 22:08:33 (EDT)
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Is Mr. Wagdi confused? Mr. Wagdi says—–>”The genetic tests I posted below show that the ancients(my ancestors,and yes I am Egyptian and proud)had much more in common with the mediterranean peoples of Europe and Asia than Ethiopians.Actually the Portugese are more closly related to black africans in genetic terms than us Egyptians(Modern Indians are more closly related to Etiopians and Somalis than the people of Predynastic upper Egypt).” He speaks of a Mediterranean race in Southern Europe and Asia, but where are they now? Did he say Portuguese but by definition of local race, linguistic correlation and geographical location, the Portuguese are more Mediterranean than anything else. Yes, the Vandals and the Visigoths did invade Portugal but there was also an indigenous population there. The Portuguese may have been invaded by the Germanic Vandals and Visigoths, who are or were a Nordic type, but studying the phenotypic features of the Portuguese no one would confuse them with Swedish people. Sherry called an Eygptian Black and Mr. Wagdi asserts he is genetically related to the Mediterraneans, but not the Mediterranean Portuguese. It seems like contradictions to me and you got it straight for the mouths of those who said it. Excuse me, Mr. Wadgi, but I didn’t mean to misspell your name. Oh yeah, good written and grammatical correct English for a third language. I commend you for your astounding efforts.
Kwabena Adofo Danquah
Minneapolis, MN USA – Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 21:29:43 (EDT)
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Yes, Sherry refered to Mr. Wagdu as Black, but he is Egyptian. Why is that? Mr. Wagdu says this—–>”I was born and raised in Egypt and it makes me laugh at you foreingers saying that our ancesters looked like Nordics or Ugandans.” Piece the puzzle with me. “?”
Kwabena Adofo Danquah
Minnesota, MN USA – Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 21:15:40 (EDT)
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I hate to start something I see a snake! Sherry posted some time ago——->”One of your black brothers have posted a link right below my large post..his name is ” Iskander Wagdi . It may be very educational for all of you to click on his name/link, to visit the web page he has refered you all to. I did. It is very interesting….” Hmmm… Now watch this!
Kwabena Adofo Danquah
Minneapolis, MN USA – Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 21:08:58 (EDT)
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Iskander, I don’t believe you have read anything that Blackfacts wrote. I think you should go back and read. I have just taken a copy of everything Blackfact (I informed Blackfacts that I was doing this)wrote and emailed it to George Sarafis at http://members.xoom.com/egyptians/ and I am awaiting his response.
Mackens P. Audena
Age: 20, USA – Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 20:23:38 (EDT)
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Just out of curiosity! Mr. Iskander Wagdi, do you have fair skin and blue eyes? Also, is your hair blonde? To Sherry, it’s been some time now since our initial discussion so may I refresh your memory because you never provided FACTS that could be scrutinized. The only thing you have supplied were hierogylphic interpretations, which can be used flexibly according to one’s agenda. Oh yeah, I forgot you gave your eyewitness account of blonde pharaohs and queens, which I did see pictures of in the Stormfront’s website. (No pun intended, because this is truth) Besides your assertations can be seen as radical for Western norms and no scholar has come forth to support your blue-eyed and blonde Egyptians (not those Western academically accepted). I have presented, although very brief, a list of African/Egyptian cultural characteristics, but it seems those so obsessed with “blonde pictures” finds this either too trivial or too profound. I, even, provided evidence that your “intriguing” Egyptians did practice excision, which you un-educatedly categorize as an unique African “savage” tradition. Why have you fail to scrutinize my position; is it because you can’t refute my claims or none of the other claims here? Is this why you now proceed to call us “liars” and attack the basic integrity of this website, as well as, African people? What is your motivation? Frustration. Did you not, in attempts to dehumanize African people, present a barrage of stereotypes which you know nothing about? I believe so. This is why you dodge an intellectual confrontation with my words. So convenient! To claim Egyptians weren’t Black, next degrade African people and grossly mis-represent cultural values and concepts, then to condemn those who refute your position as liars, when you haven’t even adequately proven your position. This is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. I have looked at the words of you and your colleagues, analyze them and using the discerning eye of an anthropology student, attempted to figure out your motives. Never once have I in the course of this discussion attacked Europeans based on the cultural ideas, unlike others; to do so would be biased. I had decided to remain quiet, as the foolish is the one who doesn’t listen and weigh things before speech, but proceeds to argue with the vigor of a ox things he does not know. But I can not allow someone, the least interested in African culture, slaughter cultural practices and walked away with questioning! This is to save the fool! Odabo! I have plenty of questions, as I said before, that have never answered or replied to; at best, the majority were only brushed aside as irrelevant or with a catch-all excuses utilize by those who don’t know the answer. You have some explaining to do. If not, then we know who the LIAR is!
Kwabena Adofo Danquah
Minneapolis, MN USA – Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 20:06:48 (EDT)
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keep up the good and necessary work!!!!!!!! Let me know if I can be of any help. I have already reccommended the readings to several friends. Tya
Tya Wahington
Age: 27, Houston, Tx USA – Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 19:38:47 (EDT)
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Brother Curtis, you bring a smile to my face with your comments. I answer to your question, I don’t think the Pharoahs would do as I have. Instead, they would nto have time to write for their wconstant and non-stop war waging on the enemy. Not just wars of the words but actual war. As Black men we all need to all ask ourselves daily…”HOW HAVE I WAGED WAR ON THE ENEMIES OF OUR PEOPLE TODAY”. What have I done “TODAY” to stop the cocaine dumped in our communities; what have I done “TODAY” to stop the murder of our women and children (Kyesha Miller, Margaret Mitchell, children by so-called police officers; what have I done “TODAY” to stop the trashing of our image in the white/jewish controlled medias; What have I done “TODAY” to direct and thereby save the life of a Black child? I respect your comments my brother, but the Pharoahs would be out kicking the hell out of our enemies! We are at war my brother….no less than war with the ……. (you know). My comments are not to name call, they are my actual descritions of what I see in them. It is not my fault if it is not pretty! However, once again I admit to taking the non scholarly so called low road in responce to the savages. You take the high road and I take the low and if we are both fighting the enemy we will smash them between us. Our people are indeed in a demolition derby and if we don’t wake up we will be demolished. There is no room and no time left for simply talk without direct action. This is our site as Black people to express ideas about and discuss our heritage…..that must be defended. If I am fighting to defend any ground we have catured (including here) then you should support it. You should just go on making your posts in defense and I will do the same. Damn the so-called bad spirits….lets get it on! I think the Pharoahs would use “ANY” and “ALL” means at their disposal to evict the barbarians. In fact, that is just what they were fighting then and us now. Self indulging and scholarly words have their place, but some times when you get in a dog fight one must use other words to fit the occasion. Compared to the advanced state of our people, the Pharoahs saw nothing but “AUSTROLOPITHICUS (white) SAVAGES” attacking them. Sadly…..SOME OF THEM HAVE NOT CHANGED MUCH–IF AT ALL. Is that my fault? Therefore why should I not called the ones that exhibit characteristic bahavior in accurate terms using accurate descriptive words? I have never yelled fire in movie theatre, but I would if there were a fire. Never stop a brother from fighting (in any way)….it does not inhibit your activities. “WE ARE NOT HYPED UP ENOUGH”! I don’t visit neo nazi sites and attack them but I do come to this site for knowledge and will defend it. Let us work….if not together…lets just work! All the best to you my good brother. Thutmos Turner
Thutmos Turner
Age: 52, Compton, CA USA – Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 15:39:11 (EDT)
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Thut, I think you meant “Osiris,” not “Curtis.” As for your comments, we are in a discussion group not a demolition derby. Let us not get so hyped up that we lose our dignity. Can you really see any of the Pharoahs using sentences like “barbaric racist AUSTROLOPITHICUS savage neo nazi whites Sherry thing..” in any of their discourses. You keep bringing up Sherry, she is a non-issue now that she has been exposed. By responding to her in any manner, especially yours, you are causing the troublesome spirit to hang around even longer. The majority of her responses have been to you. Like an annoying itch, just ignore her, and eventually she will go away. Here is an interesting hypothesis: What if Sherry and Thutmose are really alter egos, and their is some scary Schizophrenic – multiple personality type of thing going on here. Or better yet, maybe they ARE two seperate people but there is a love-hate relationship forming. What was that Spike Lee movie/Stevie Wonder song called again? Somethin’ about a Tropical illness? Oh never mind. Curtis
CurtissitruC
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA – Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 14:28:18 (EDT)
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BLACK POWER!
KING NARMER
USA – Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 12:48:44 (EDT)
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Don’t calm down brother Curtis! Don’t calm down at all. Why should we not take our rightful place as world leaders. Whites are less than 10% of the population and their birthrates are falling through the floor fast. This is their reason for panic imprisonment and mass killing! They are even pushing multiculturalism in order to mix with our genes. They are in a state of crisis (as we are living in their barbaric society) and they are simply trying to survive! Don’t calm down at all! Anyway, I am proud the way our brothers and sisters have stepped up to the plate and drove the barbaric racist AUSTROLOPITHICUS savage neo nazi whites (Sherry thing and friends) back into hell! We have defended our Black heritage and I declare victory in this round. It was absolutely masterful. I have learned a great deal from my brothers and sisters quotes and references while they answered the savages. I guess in this way the white supremist neo nazi savages have assisted us in achieving our goal…..whiich is the increase of THE KNOWLEDGE OF SELF. I never thought I would say thank you to a savage but……….no no I just can’t do it! The savages just don’t understand that Black peple (not negroes) don’t care what white savages have to say. The day is over when we accept knowledge of self from the oppressor. The next thing these barbaric white savages will be saying is that Christopher Columbus discovered America. Maybe I am stretching a bit….not even the neo nazi savage Sherry thing wold go that far! Brothers you have done me proud and it will take me a month or so just to sift through the sources you provided in this last round with the savages. On with the war to unite our MINDS! The day we achieve this unity is the day racism white supremacy ends and peace and justice brought back to the planet. It has been only 400 years and they are already on their way out. Again, this is why the panic over what we think of ourselves. Hotep my brothers and sisters. Thutmos Turner
Thutmos Turner
Age: 52, Compton, CA USA – Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 12:42:32 (EDT)
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Jeez, Osiris, calm down.
Maksat Tohme
USA – Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 10:03:56 (EDT)
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Some day the white man will serve the black man and bow before him!!The WAR continues!!!!!
Osiris
USA – Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 09:15:02 (EDT)
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Whats the name address for the websight with the inscription of Uni?
Iskander Wagdi
USA – Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 07:40:52 (EDT)
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Here are some links to interesting pictures,http://members.xoom.com/egyptians/images/index.html Most of the pictures here are from the old kingdom, they clearly show Nofret daughter of Khufu was fair skinned and had blue eyes, the man seated beside her is her husband Rahotep.The picture at the top of the page of a fairly overweight man is Hemiunu.Heminunu oversaw the building of Khufu’s pyramid, but hang on a minute the ancients were black, why would a Caucasian oversee the building of the pyramids (which you argue were the results of black genius)and why does Khufu’s daughter have such a light complexion? Why?Well ether theres a conspiracy where the evil Egyptians/Arabs(who are apparently are not Egyptian at all but asiatics) and evil devil white men have destroyed all the original artifacts and replaced them with fakes, because they are afraid of the mighty black africans (who also happened to invent everything ever worth inventing in history)rising up from the sorry state their people are in and taking over the world or perhaps due to the society which Afro-Americans live in, which is riddled with racism they/you need to have a feeling of superiority,greatness and a belief you are decended from kings and queens, just because you have a massive chip on your shoulder and no self-confidence.It makes sence for you to blame others for your problems.In fact you lot have alot in commom with the Nazis, just like they blamed the Jews for all Germanys problems and made up a false history of an ancient Aryan race whho throughtout history the Jews were trying to destroy.Just replace the Jews with Arabs and whites,the German race with the black race and the ancient Aryans with the ancient Egyptians and you have a new master race full of brainwashed automaton’s.It is very important that history dosent repeat itself because we all know what happened to the Jews last time around.(this is directed only at people like Thutmos Turner and Osiris who in below posts have used some vulgar and extremely offensive language which I will not repeat.So if your hear for a genuine love and interest in history please do not be offended) The genetic tests I posted below show that the ancients(my ancestors,and yes I am Egyptian and proud)had much more in common with the mediterranean peoples of Europe and Asia than Ethiopians.Actually the Portugese are more closly related to black africans in genetic terms than us Egyptians(Modern Indians are more closly related to Etiopians and Somalis than the people of Predynastic upper Egypt). I made it clear the meaning of the Greek word melanchroies so I will not go into that again. Herodotus compared the Egyptians to “Colchians”-were the Colchians black Africans. The Colchians inhabited what is roughly modern-day Georgia in the Caucasus, so the vast majority were most likely — and quite literally — CAUCASIAN.Herodotus’ exlanation that being melanchrroes or oulutrches “indeed counts for nothing, since other peoples are, too” suggests that these adjectives did not apply exclusively to any one “race” of people.The description of Colchians by Herodotus can be contrasted with that of Hippocrates,who wrote of the Colchians in Phasis”have an appearance different from that of other men.As to size,they are large and corpulent in body.Neither joint nor vein is evident.They have a yelloish flesh, as if victims of jaundice”(Hippocrates,Airs,Waters,Places 15).Nothing in Hippocrates, descrition suggests that Colchians look anything like sub-Saharan Africans and this further wekens the Afrocentric argument that Egyptians and Colchians must have looks like “blacks” on the basis of Herodotus’ Words. Also when Herodotus,other classical writer and the Ehtiopians said that Egypt was a colony of Ethiopia thay were not lying.If you remember the 25th dynasty was of Ethiopian origin and only a couple of hundred years before Herodotus visited Egypt ,Egypt was ruled from Napata in the heart of Nubia/Ethiopia(Afrocentrists twisting the truth again). Other ancient quotes cited by Afrocentrists Other ancient quotes that some Afro-Egyptocentrists interpret in such a way as to conflict with other descriptions such as the ones I quoted before.These are marred by basically the same failings as the Herodotus quote described above in interpreting Greek words such as mlanchroes as “negro”, and failing to recognize stereotypes and exaggerations.Using the same faulty techniques, Afrocentrists might as well say Jews in the Middle Ages were “black”(I wouldnt be surprised if they did) because Joeeph ben Nathan in the 13th centuary quoted his father as saying “we Jews come from a pure,white source, and so our faces are black”.Of course to do this would igore the fact that in medieval Europe as in ancient Greece,”black” often meant “swarthy”.Likewise Afrocentrists could insist that 12th centuary Turks were “black” on the basis of their being exaggerated as “blacker than pitch or ink” in the epic Chanson d’Aspremont.But we know on the basis of physical remains and ample pictorial evidence that neither the Jews nor Turks were actually “black” in medieval times. Heres interesting information about the picture (can be seen in in most Afrocentric books)that Afrocentrics say is proof that the Egyptians saw themselves as looking the same as Nubians/Kushites/Ethiopians can be found at http://www.deja.com Subject:Re:photos of “black Egyptians” Date: 1999/05/11 Author:Bernard Ortiz de Montellano Civilization: Dear Paul, Those figures in the Lepsius Erganzungsband,pl.48 are not actually Lepsius’ work, but a re-edition done in 1913, as Ishowed in my article in Egypt in Africa(Bloomington,IM:Indiana University Press, 1997).To make matters worse , the hieroglyph texts between these figures were garbled.The original scenes both in Sety the 1st’s tomb and in Ramesses the 3rd’s tomb showed the Egyptians and the Kushites as distinctly different.Also, the hieroglyphs on the real walls are distributed between each of the four figures depicting each type.You can now view the real photographs of both the Sety the 1st and Ramesses the thirds walls in Hornung’s volumes on the valley of the Kings.I have been inside both tombs myself and have seen these scenes and their texts, and on the basis of this, the depiction in Erganzungsband is not the real depiction of what is on the walls but rather a pastische, arranged from Lepsius’ notes and garbled in the process.It is unfortunate that so many people have depended on this depiction as reality, when a look at the walls in both tombs shows that patently it is not reality. Most sincerly Frank J.Yurco ***** Regards http://members.xoom.com/egyptians/images/smiting.html Picture of Ramesses the second smiting a Libyan,Nubian/Ethiopian and a Asiatic.Notice how the artist used the same pigment for Ramesses as he did for the Asiatic,think about that!Now compare the facial features of Ramesses to the Nubian and the Asiatic,notice how Ramesses looked almost complestly like the Asiatic apart from the beard.I know its only a picture but I think its fairly obvious that Ramesses was not black, further weakening the Afrocentric arguement. http://members.xoom.com/egyptians/images/prisoner.html This is a picture of an Nubian/Ethiopian Captive.Take a look closly does he look Egyptian, I dont think so and if dont agree I think you should probably see an optician. P.S.Its a pity pictures cant be posted on this page I could probably end this debat hear and now.And as I said more to come incluning quotes,dental and hair evidence and more genetic tests.
Iskander Wagdi
Tanta, Egypt – Wednesday, October 20, 1999 at 07:38:41 (EDT)
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Not only are your “idealogies” far from the truth, but just about all of you are nothing more than LIARS. To blackfacts…your mythical facts that you post are absurd. Have you been to Egypt? Really…have you? Evidnetally not. No one here, and specifically not you..can brain-wash me into your desperate attempts to make the world”black”. I have LISTED numerous FACTS here..which no one could dispute. Though many have tried, and when they realized, it wasnt working with me…suddenly Im a racist..suddenly , Im a neo-nazi, a savage…etc etc. Now, from you…I am sopossed to have an “obsession” with blacks, and I go from board to board ..lurking? (laughing) You really are disturbed. I came across this site, one night while I was searching for some additional information related to Egypt. When I entered this site..I was astonished at what I had seen and read. The twisted facts that I read …I had to respond…and I will keep on responding all of these lies. You can read ANY of my posts, there is nothing “racist” within my posts…just FACTS, and it seems as though when “blacks” are confronted with facts, its automatically “racist”. Which is not true. If any of you were sincere in your efforts of study, you wouldnt twist facts to fit your beliefs, resort to name-calling, and call the race card when your confronted with facts that you dont like, and dont want to hear. Go read my posts. See for yourself…its a simple fact of how you and your people twist things and put words in other peoples mouths..afterall, many of you did it here to me…scroll down…read a little. I find it funny that you have the audascity to claim I lurk on “black” boards..can you clarify that ? Where have I been? Who I am , is no “Secret”, and when I post something..it will have my name on it. I encourage you to check the ip#s’ here..do you know how to do that? If so, check and see…then go to these other “black boards” and get the ip#s’…and get back with me. You are very immature. Also, the pallette of narmer…does anyone have a pic of it? I do, I can post it , and show everyone his features. As much as you would like him to be negroid, hes not. Also…no one has still proven the inscription of uni to be a real “fake” or “mistake”. In fact, someone here put a link to the university of chicago egyptology and oriental studies..to refer peopole there for some so called “black” information on egypt. Well, its funny…I used the same website, and encouraged people here to look up the interpretation of the inscription of uni…and suddenly I was a barbaric savage racist..and that website was racist..and the egyptologist breadsted was racist..when I used it…but when your people used it..it wasnt racist. HHHmmmm…thats really going to make people think when they read that. It proves my point of not only the distortion of facts here, but, how anything that doesnt agree with this sites idealogy…is racist. That is hypocritical…and just by that one little mistake(though there have been numerous other contridictions here) of calling me a racist because I used the SAME EXACT SITE THAT YOUR BROTHERS USED AND POSTED A LINK TO…its obvious…what you people really are. In the future, learn history…and dont distort it…and accept history for what it is..because you surely cant change it .In Truth…Sherry
Sherry
USA – Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 22:15:28 (EDT)
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I have no interest in disputing the claim that Egypt and not Greece being the seat of western law and I don’t thinbk it really matters, however, in your article you quote a Greek saying: “Ex Africa semper liquid novi” You should be aware that this is Latin and not Greek (and especially not Ancient Greek). You may wish to go back to your sources for the original quote.
Miles
Age: 33, USA – Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 20:54:03 (EDT)
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I have taken a back seat to read and absorb of the posts. This is a learning experience for me. I have seen my brothers and sisters step to share their wealth of information like true defenders of their heritage and this makes me proud. For sometime, even before reading Diop and others, I have always assumed the indigenous peoples of India to be our kith and kin. There are those early findings of africoid (our as scholars try to cover and say “Negritos”) people in lands far from Mama Africa and I would always wonder. Earlier this year, I conducted a rudimentary study of the Andamanese and now much I have presented and then some have been proven. It is also good to know my people are thinking, in terms, of the global collective of African people. Continue my people to research and write and I will enjoy the fruit of your labor. Bigups to Bros. Nepal, Blackfacts, Curtis, Rodney, Menes and all others who have diligent in their studies and wisdom in their words. As I finish reading, I will provide my perspective! Odabo. One Love!!!
Kwabena Adofo Danquah
Minneapolis, MN USA – Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 20:24:43 (EDT)
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Brother S.R. Nepal, I couldn’t find a way to contact you on your website. In any case, I am putting your a link to your website on my own.
Mack Audena
Age: 20, Pitt, Pa USA – Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 20:05:29 (EDT)
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Blackfacts, thank you for setting it all straight. Respect and Love for Mother Africa!Egyptians were Black. Here is a quote from http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Classroom/9912/ancafristates.html “In fact, quite a few historians have postulated that African civilization follows along a continuous path. …there was no interruption of African history. It is evident that, if starting from Nubia and Egypt, we had followed a continental geographical direction, such as Nubia-Gulf of Benin, Nubia-Congo, Nubia-Mozambique, the course of African history would still have appeared uninterruptied. This is the perspective in which the African past should be viewed. Cheikh Anta Diop, African scholar”
Mack Audena
Age: 20, USA – Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 19:55:46 (EDT)
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Now we’re not supposed to refer to the Kamau as being either “black or white.” Is this where we are to be assaulted with assertions of a “multiracial” Kemet after having discovered that there’s copious documentation and a body of informed African-centered scholars and researchers willing to promote the African presence in the Hapi (Nile) Valley? Given the anti-African tirades posted in the recent weeks one can see that europeans and their colored adjuncts still haven’t given up their Hegelian views and their attempts to commit historicide against African people. Read “THE PHILOSOPHY OF HISTORY” by Georg Hegel.Then again this is “intellectual warfare.” And Curtis, thank you for expanding the discussion to the African/Black presence in western Asia. SOUL! PEACE! AND HAIRGREASE!
Rodney Cash Jr.
USA – Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 19:05:48 (EDT)
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From “Europa: The History of the White Race” — “Although Hammurabi himself was then clearly a descendent of one of the Nordic tribes and not one of the “black haired” peoples, as the Law Code reveals, by this time large numbers of the population had become distinctly Semitic, as waves of immigrants swarmed in from the Arabic heartland on the Saudi Arabian peninsula, drawn by the allure of the great Sumerian cities.” —– These “Aryans” are sad. Not one source on the web from any Mesopatamian Departments of any universities, translates “black-headed” as black-haired.” Why do the Aryans twist the translation. All the sources that translate it as black-headed, are from whites. So are the white people in a grand conspiracy with the Afrocentrists? The neo-nazi argument is just plain stupid. Also, no other sources state that Hammurabi was a Nordic. If anything he was a semite. No modern day Assyriologist would be so foolish as to claim that these people were Nordics. It is true that he is called the white king, but he was hardly Scandinavian, germanic, or anything closely resembling these people. The Nordics were still wearing bearskins and calling themselves berserkers at this time. The Viking peoples were some of the most barbaric in Europe, and some of the last to be “civilized.” Before the 1100’s A.D. what did any Nordic (Germanic or Scandinavian) ever do to “advance civilization.” My friends, the nazi’s are jokers, and their fellow Europeans consistently prove it.
Curtis
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA – Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 18:11:52 (EDT)
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Thanks for the replies. More about the artwork: on a website referred to previously in this discussion (click my name to get to the page) there is a picture of Ramses II holding captives by the hair. Here we have Egyptian, Nubian, and Asian all in the same picture. While the Egyptian and Asian both are painted using exactly the same “Egyptian red” pigment, the Nubian is clearly differentiated in terms of skin color as he is much darker than the rest of the figures. One other artwork I’d like to point out – which was not on the website – is a famous chest from Tutankhamen’s tomb showing Tut slaying enemy armies. Tut’s army is fighting Nubians on one side of the chest and Asiatics on the other. It is clear that the Egyptians are physically different from both enemies, but in terms of color they appear closer to the Asiatics. By the way, just to make my stance clear, I believe it is inaccurate to call Egyptians either black or white. Take care.
Maksat Tohme
Huntington Beach, CA USA – Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 17:57:41 (EDT)
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Mr. Tohme. You’ve already proven yourself racist in earlier posts (The Arab rants) with your statements of Africans being underdeveloped and sarcastic tones to black people ever being in positions of power. Incidentally the Arabs had much the same to say about their Berber cousins, some of whom are black but many of whom are some variety of white. But anyway…you stated: “A suggestion for people in this forum: please find pictures of the ancient Faiyum portraits. There are many portraits that are of native Egyptians, and some of these have dark-skin, tightly-curled hair and relatively full lips (as in some but not all Greek descriptions), but at the same time could never be mistaken for a West African or even an Ethiopian.” REALLY? SOUNDS LIKE BLACK FOLKS TO ME?!?! You been to West Africa? You’ve seen ALL West Africans? You seen ALL Ethiopians? Ever been to Ethiopia? And perhaps the ancient Egyptians did not look predominantaly like West Africans. Does that instantly make them non-black? Is West Africa the only habitable place in Africa? Groups like the Fulani claim descent from East Africa. So do the Yoruba of Nigeria. Why did the Egyptians draw the people of Punt so identical to themselves? Why do many Ethiopian medieval paintings draw themselves with very light skin and straight noses? Ever seen a picture of the late Haile Selassie? How bout Menelik II? You also state, “They show many lighter-skinned Egyptians, too.” Come to my family reunion sometime Tohmey—I’ll show ya’ folks that range from chocolate deluxe to mocha to french vanilla. And guess what? They’re ALL BLACK! Classify us as Hamites, Bantus, Negroes or what have you. Try as one might, you cannot wash off Mother Africa. HUMANITY is AFRICAN Tohme. You and Sherry betta stop running. And please, in following in the ways of Egyptians and other Africans—respect your black ancestors. Its the least you could do…
blackfacts
USA – Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 17:47:29 (EDT)
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More on Sumerian Blacks (BTW these were written by the black-headed peoples themselves. Most scholars agree that the “black” refers to skin color not to hair since most of the people in that region were dark-haired). —— The swift runner, a hurricane — the strength of his loins is never ending, who emerges victorious from the race among the settlements; the terrifying one, who is furious in his running, the strongest among those selected from the people, ……. When he stretches his arms out, …… at his sides. Culgi, …… from the horizon. Because of his being most powerful, in his vigour ……. He, the tireless one, …… the road. No king ever cared so much for the black-headed people; he established justice on a grand scale.
Curtis
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA – Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 17:45:09 (EDT)
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Black Sumerians – http://www-etcsl.orient.ox.ac.uk/section2/tr2412.htm —– In the Gagiccua of the great palace, where she renders verdicts with grandeur, he made the great mother Ninlil glad. Enlil and Ninlil relished it there. In its great dining-hall, the trustworthy hero chosen by Nunamnir made them enjoy a magnificent meal: the E-kur was rejoicing. They looked with approval at the shepherd Ur-Namma, and the Great Mountain decreed a great destiny for Ur-Namma for all time, making him the mightiest among his black-headed people. 12-21In the E-tarsirsir, founded for you by An, you decide the fate of all the countries; you, my lady, render verdicts and decree judgements. Bau, in the E-tarsirsir, founded for you by An, you decide the fate of all the countries; you, Bau, render verdicts and decree judgements. The …… protective genius directs your black-headed people before you in your courtyard in the holy city. Bau, the …… protective genius directs your black-headed people before you in your courtyard in the holy city.
Curtis
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA – Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 17:42:16 (EDT)
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Oh yeah, to Sherry. One of the reasons the Narmer bust was related to Narmer is because it DOES resemble the thick lipped and “bulbous” nosed figure on the celebrated Narmer pallette! I guess we each see what we want to see eh’ STURMfront? Narmer comes from the south, where predynastic kings had set up their own kingdom in Upper Egypt. A visit to modern day Egypt will show Upper Egypt to still very “Africoid” in make up when compared to Lower Egypt. As the Egyptians themselves claim they come from the South, Like Narmer and the Horus kings and Souls of Neken, I suppose then that blond haired whites with white skin migrated from inner Africa eh? Woulda been heck on them when Ra made his ascent…. You’re silly. If you wasn’t such a little Nazi… I’d find you humorous… What happened Sherry? Got tired of haunting the other black boards? For those that don’t know Sherry makes a habit of popping up on black boards and lurks silently in black listservs waiting to pounce. Her obsession with black people and black people’s business is truly disturbing…
blackfacts
USA – Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 17:36:09 (EDT)
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Dark, dusky, swarthy or black—all have been terms used to describe blacks. In the Greek quotes I gave you, Aristotle compares the Egyptians and Ethiopians in having the same skin color. He sees himself, the Greek, as having the medium tone. Replace black with dusky, swarthy, etc. and the comparisons are still there. And as for differentiations between artistic drawings of Nubians and Egyptians, well for one—they weren’t always so. Often times the Egyptians painted Nubians in their same red ochre. In the reliefs of the people of Punt (modern day Somalia or Eritrea) the people are also drawn nearly identical to the Egyptians. Point is, I have seen numerous pictures depicting Egyptians and Nubians. And in many the Nubians are portrayed with black skin and very kinky hair. The Egyptians are portrayed with reddish brown skin and VARIOUS hair types–straight and kinky. But, having red-brown skin DOES NOT make the Egyptians non-black or non-African! All Africans DO NOT have jet black skin. In fact, the portrayal of Nubians in this manner is common during a certain New Kingdom period, and not the entire 3,00 year old dynasty. Why this stereotype of Nubians with very black skin, exceedingly thick lips and blonde wigs during this time period? It is unknown. Point is, it doesn’t make the Egyptians any less Africoid. No more than it makes the Bedja of Somalia, the brown skinned Fulani of West Africa, or the slender thin nosed/lipped Tutsi non-Africoid. New York police sketch detective Frank Domingo (a man who has done numerous race profiles) could not help but be reminded of Puerto Rico as he walked the streets of modern day Cairo and Luxor. The African stamp upon many of the faces was obvious. As I have walked those streets myself, I was reminded of the same thing. It was like walking through the Dominican Republic or Brazil. The Africoid stamp was still evident on MANY of the modern day inhabitants of Egypt. The black skinned Nubians the New Kingdom Egyptians chose to portray are today very brown skinned (take a trip to Aswan sometime) and in fact look very much like the many reddish-brown peoples who can be found on the walls throughout ancient Egypt. Ancient Egypt of today is a land of many different peoples who have settled in the region. Hate to break it to you, but black people do not all have “black” skin, very thick lips, kinky hair, etc. We have all the varieties in the world— because in case you didn’t know, we’re the oldest people on the planet. Modern day Egyptians can claim to be WHATEVER they want to be. Its the politics of the world we live in. Better to be anything than black. So everyone from the very intermixed modern day Egyptians to some Somali to some Ethiopians to some black Brazlians to Tiger Woods—don’t want to be black. That’s politics talking. If you’re white you’re alright. If you’re black—jump back! If politics was different, everybody today would be beatin’ down the black door. You, Sherry and Iskander keep on lumping all Afrocentrics together. I do not fully agree with the KMT meaning “black people” statement. Neither do I think that ALL of Egypt was black. All of Egypt was not black just as ALL of Greece was not white. But Egypt was “PREDOMINANTALLY black” is what I contend; and you may take that in all the variants of black that exist in the Western Hemisphere today. You look at the “claimed” bust of Nefertiti and say “white girl.” I look at the bust of a queen who was supposedly of Persian or Mittani and Egyptian heritage and say, “Mariah Carey.” For further explanation look up the term “high yella” in Leroy’s Urbanite Dictionary… Suffice it to say, if there were no black Africans who sat upon the thrones of Egypt—then there are no Africans in the United States, the Caribbean or South America. >>>>>>>>>>>”The way of looking at the world to be found in, say the Hebrew Bible or in Babylonia literature or amongst the Greeks is very different from anything you find in Egypt. And that difference is its Africaness.”—Bruce Williams, Egyptologist/Nubiologist (white)
blackfacts
USA – Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 17:26:06 (EDT)
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Link between black Indians and Sumerians from the following website: http://www.tamilnation.org/forum.htm 1.Tamil people are compared with the Sumerians: ” The people responsible for the first monumental temples and palaces, for the founding of the first city states and most likely for the invention of writing (all in the period of 3100-3000 BCE) are the Sumerians. The first written signs are pictographic, so they can be read in any language and one can’t infer a particular language. …..The Sumerians called their country ken.gi(r) ‘civilised land’, their language eme.gir and themselves sag.gi6.ga ‘the black-headed ones ‘Sumerian’ has no known relation to any other language. There seems to be a remote relationship with Dravidian languages (like spoken by the Tamils, now in the south of India). There is evidence that the Dravidian languages were spoken in the north of India, being displaced by the arrival of the Indo-European invaders around 1500 BCE. Because of the term ‘the black-headed ones’, it is possible (but far from proven) that the Sumerians are an early branch of one of the people now living in southern India.” In my view, if Tamil linguistic experts are involved in research to decode the Sumerian languages, there must be some interesting finding. The western historians, in my view, are handicapped because of their limited knowledge of literary Tamil. Of course, we the Tamils may not be able to understand even the Sangam Tamil… the biggest generation gap in our language! 2. Some of the Sumerian towns had names that resembles Tamil names ..Ur, Nippur and more so the name “Elam (Tamil Elangai) and the Elamites (people of Elam): The ruins of many famous ancient cities, like Eridu, Ur, Nippur and Kish are now far from the river, but were in the past situated at the river banks.Modern Iran is roughly equivalent to Persia and including in its south-western part ancient Elam. The Elamites are the people of Elam. 3. There is a spurious belief in India that Sanskrit is the oldest language and most languages are derivatives. The word ‘Sans’ and ‘Script’ means ‘without’ ‘script’. Historians indicated that when Aryans brought their oral language, the Dravidians had a well developed language (Tamil) with script and that’s why they called the Aryan language as “Sanscript”. 4. There is another research undertaken by Mr Arunachalam of Tirunelveli District (Winner of the Chief Ministers Award and right now a teacher in Government School), on the question whether the languages spoken by Aborigines in Australia have some relationship with Tamil language. (Interested persons may refer to his book on that subject published by St Xaviers College, Palayamkottai, Tirunelveli Dt, India). He even suggested that the “boomerang’ used by Aborigines was equivalent to “kalari erithal’ in old Tamil literature which most of us thought as a highest imagination but seems to be reality. I am not a historian but I love the history and more so the History of Tamils. Nantri, Vanakkam and Meendum Santhippom.
Curtis
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA – Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 17:15:41 (EDT)
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A suggestion for people in this forum: please find pictures of the ancient Faiyum portraits. There are many portraits that are of native Egyptians, and some of these have dark-skin, tightly-curled hair and relatively full lips (as in some but not all Greek descriptions), but at the same time could never be mistaken for a West African or even an Ethiopian. They show many lighter-skinned Egyptians, too.
Maksat Tohme
Huntington Beach, CA USA – Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 17:11:26 (EDT)
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If you read the body of ancient Egyptian literature it is clear that skin color was of no concern to the Egyptians, yet the Nile and the land surrounding it was of central importance. It is impossible for me to believe they would have made skin color the central point of their identity, rather than the fertile strip of land which was of utmost importance to their civilization and way of life. Like Iskander said, in Egypt there were dichotomous terms kemit (“black land”, fertile Nile valley) and deshret (“red land”, desert). If you take kemit to mean “land of black people”, then the word “deshret” would cease to make sense, unless you believe there were red people running around in the desert. And since the Egyptians had neighbors much darker than themselves, as their art shows, calling themselves “the black people” would have been utterly illogical. It would be useless because the term would not have differentiated them from their darker neighbors. If the Egyptians ever used skin color terms to denote ethnic groups, they would have applied “black” to Nubians, not Egyptians.
Maksat Tohme
Huntington Beach, CA USA – Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 16:53:32 (EDT)
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Although I hate the biblical references, and I do not like the politics of the writer, I will post this any way for the historical record. This is from http://www.larouchepub.com/lar_go_with_flow_2546.html — The primary sources show Sumer to be a settlement by a non-Semitic, “black-headed people,” of the Dravidian language-group. The internal evidence corresponds to Herodotus’ accounts of a Subcontinent-based (Shatki-Siva) maritime culture of the Dravidian language-group, which Herodotus associates with such locales as Yemen (Aththar), Ishtar (Mesopotamia), and Canaanite (Astarte). The Isis-Osiris cult is recognized as part of the same cultural set, as also the Phrygian Cybele-Dionysos, and Delphi Gaea-Python (Apollo) cult. The gross evidence is, that the Subcontinent-based branch of this Dravidian-language-group culture, associated with Harappa, went into decline during a period corresponding to some time during the Third Millennium B.C., a period corresponding to the growing influx of the Indo-European, Vedic culture, originating proximately from a relatively less arid period in Central Asia. The Semitic cultures of more recent times are by-products of the interaction between Egyptian culture and Dravidian-based influences such as those encountered in the Akkadians, Yemen, Ethiopia, and Canaan. Thus, whereas the original Hebrew, Mosaic faith is associated with Egypt, the Hebrew tradition following the first Babylonian captivity (accounting the Persian as the second Babylonian captivity) is mixed, syncretically, with the imposition of elements of the pagan mythologies of the Akkadians.
Curtis
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA – Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 16:45:36 (EDT)
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An excellent site for ancient Black global history (1) http://orion.it.luc.edu/~cwinter/ — (2)
Curtis
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA – Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 16:42:16 (EDT)
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Greetings all. I stumbled upon your site. I could not help but notice that the website you sent us by the Egyptian fellow spoke of the ancient Egyptians being related to the Dravidians. How humorous. You know the late great Cheikh Anta Diop said that those who did not favor an African Egypt often found themselves running from one black type (so-called Hammites) to another black type (Dravidian). Well guess what? I’m of Dravidian as well as modern African heritage myself. I guess I bridge both lands. Not suprising at all that Herodotus would state, “There are two Ethiopias—one to the south and the other to the East.” Here’s a page by the ever fighting Dravidian with whom I also share descent. If you are really Egyptian (native) as you say Iskander, then if you’re of Dravidian heritage—you’re certainly NO ARYAN! Being white is NOT always right!!!! This one’s for Sherry as well…since she seems to be so fond of Aryans and their ilk. Visit the site of my people’s resistance. Black People of the WORLD…UNITE AND FIGHT! http://dalitstan.org/journal/ BLACK AMERICANS FIRST AND FOREMOST! GO TO THIS SITE SO WE CAN LEARN OF EACH OTHER AND UNITE!!!
S.R. Nepal
– Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 16:40:32 (EDT)
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I take issue with the quotes that our friend “blackfacts” supplied. Clearly Iskander pointed out that words Greeks sometimes used to describe Egyptians, such as “melas” and “melanochroes”, should be translated as “dark-complected” (and not “black”) in English, and this is proven by the fact that Homer described the Greek hero Odysseus (Ulysses) using the exact same words but many ancient portrayals exist to show Odysseus was neither black nor negro nor negroid. So if you replace the word “black” in blackfacts’ quotes by the word “dark”, the translations will be more accurate. The Greek writer Manilius clearly said the Egyptians had a “medium” skin tone and differentiated them from the black of Ethiopians. So that’s what the Egyptians were, “medium-toned”, just like they were portrayed themselves in their artwork relative to other peoples.
Maksat Tohme
Huntington Beach, CA USA – Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 16:33:05 (EDT)
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In his book “The Destruction of Black Civilization,” Chancellor Williams claimed that the original Sumerians were black. Unfortunately this book contained almost no footnotes, endnotes, or other source references. Until now, I have been unbale to find something that substantiates his statements. But Samuel Noah Kramer (who was Clark Research Professor Emeritus of Assyriology at the University of Pennsylvania and Curator Emeritus of the Tablet Collections at the University Museum, University of Pennsylvania.) proves (to my satisfaction) the Mr. Williams assertions were true.—————- DISCLAIMER: The information to follow comes from a (supposedly) Christian website. I have not reviewed their theological material and I am IN NO WAY promoting this site from a religious standpoint. My SOLE purpose is to offer more proof that the original inhabitants of Sumeria were black. Some parts may seem racist, but look beyond it and see what the facts are really saying. BTW, for the neo-Nazis, Mr. Kramer is white and is in now way associated with the Afrocentric movement ————– http://www.custance.org/noah/curse.html —— APPENDIX– WAS CANAAN A TRUE BLACK?– The evidence now seems to indicate the presence in Mesopotamia, in very early times, of three distinct groups of people: the Sumerians, the Elamites, and a very small group referred to as Japhethites, known especially for the fairness of their skin. The two dominant groups were the Elamites, the first settlers who spread northwards, and the Sumerians in the south, who brought with them new civilizing influences leading to considerable cultural advance. The Table of Nations clearly indentifes the first settlers as the children of Elam, a son of Shem (Gen. 10:22). But there is no mention whatsoever of Sumerians. There is this note, however, that there was a “mighty one in the earth” named Nimrod, whose kingdom began in the land of Shinar. (Gen. 10: 8-11). Nimrod, whose name is found in Sumerian tradition, was the son of Cush, as son of Ham, and his uncle would be Canaan. No one has ever suggested, to my knowledge, that the Sumerians were Negroid – nor do any of the reconstructed “Sumerian Life and Times” series such as have appeared in the National Geographic Magazine, or Life, ever so portray them. Yet there is some evidence to suggest that they may have been black-skinned. According to Samuel Kramer they refer to themselves as “the blackheaded people.” Actually the Sumerian original reads “head-of-black people,” the symbol for head (SAG) being a cone-shaped hat hiding all but the neck of the wearer, thus: Hammurabi, in his famous Code of Laws, also refers to the natives of Mesopotamia as A-NA SALMAT GAGGADIM, i.e., “blackheaded ones.” Such descriptive phrases are, I think, usually taken to mean merely “dark-haired.” But it seems likely that 95% or more of all the people who made up the early Middle East cultures were black-haired, whether Semitic or Sumerian, and so this feature was hardly a distinguishing one. But the Semitic population according to A. H. Sayce distinguished themselves (with racial pride) from other peoples by their own light coloured skin, and claimed that Adam too was a white man. They considered themselves direct descendants. Yet they had black hair like the Sumerians and would not be different in this. They might therefore just as well have been termed “blackheaded people.” But they apparently never were. Evidently, then, it would be no mark of distinction to refer to the hair colour, but it would definitely be such to refer to skin colour. And the Sumerians were apparently proud of their black skin. Gadd says they came to equate the term “black-headed people” with the idea of “men” as real people by contrast with other human beings who were not really men at all. It is further to be noted that the founders of the wonderful Indus Valley cultures were black-skinned, and not merely black-haired. The Rig Veda makes frequent reference to the fact that the conquering Aryans triumphed over these black and noseless (!) enemies. And there does seem to be some real connection, if not racial identity, between the Sumerians and these Indus Valley people. It may well be, therefore, that the phrase does really refer to skin colour. Furthermore, in the famous six-sided prism of Sennacherib, the king refers to the conquered Canaanites as “blackness of head people.” From all this, it can be concluded with reasonable assurance that, genetically, Canaan could indeed have been a black child, the homozygous offspring of his mulatto parents, Ham and his wife.
Curtis
Age: 27, Brooklyn, NY USA – Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 16:16:59 (EDT)
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And since the mysterious Egyptian Iskander decided to throw up some Greek quotes…couldn’t help but throw a few in myself. ———————————>>>>>> {“They (the Ethiopians) say also that the Egyptians are colonists sent out by the Ethiopians, Osiris having been the leader of the colony…And the larger part of the customs of the Egyptians are, they hold, Ethiopian…” (Diodorus Siculus, Book III. 2. 4-3. 3)} {“Those who are too black are cowards, like for instance, the Egyptians and Ethiopians. But those who are excessively white are also cowards as we can see from the example of women, the complexion of courage is between the two.” (?) (Aristotle, _Physiognomy_, 6)} {“Why are the Ethiopians and Egyptians bandy-legged? Is it because of that the body of itself creates, because of disturbance by heat, like loss of wood when they become dry? The condition of their hair supports this theory; for it is curlier than that of other nations…” (Aristotle, _Problemata_ 909, 7)} {Lycinus (describing an Egyptian): ‘this boy is not merely black; he has thick lips and his legs are too thin…his hair worn in a plait shows that he is not a freeman.’ Timolaus: ‘but that is a sign of really distinguished birth in Egypt, Lycinus. All freeborn children plait their hair until they reach manhood…’ (Lucian, _Navigations_, paras 2-3)} {Dialogue: “Aegyptos conquered the country of the black-footed ones and called it Egypt after himself” (Apollodorus, Book II, paras 3 and 4)} {Dialogue: Danaos (describing the Aegyptiads): ‘I can see the crew with their black limbs and white tunics.’ (Aeschylus, _The Suppliants_, vv. 719-20, 745)}
blackfacts
USA – Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 15:40:56 (EDT)
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Sorry Iskander, if that is indeed your REAL name… 🙂 But like genetic frequencies, craniometrics can have a high degree of variable interpretation. Here is another take on the classification of ancient Egyptian craniology. Clicking on the website at the bottom of the post will give you more information. And oh yes, here’s an interesting peice of trivia. Anthropologist Morton in the early 1900s took crainiometric measurements and determined that blacks were supposedly of lesser intelligence. His theory has since been proven bogus though white supremacists love to bring it up from time to time. What is of interest is that for his white sample of skulls he used Nordic, blond haired, blue-eyed types (Sherry’s master race…). For the black “negroid” types he used…yup you guessed it…ancient Egyptian skulls. And that’s a blackfact. _________________________________________________________________________ James Harris and Edward Wente conducted an x-ray analysis of the New Kingdom royal mummies with the results published in their book X-ray Atlas of the Royal Mummies (Chicago: University of Chicago, 1980). Included in the work were cephalograms of Pharaohs of the XVII-XX Dynasties and their queens. The angular measurements presented in tabular form in pp. 358-363 will be used here to compare the Pharaohs in craniofacial terms to tropical African types such as the Nubians. We will analyze all the data of the New Kingdom Pharaohs in terms of ANB (A point-nasion-basion) and SN – Mand. Pl. (sella-nasion/gonion-menton). Also, the three images available on Edward Wente’s website, Who was Who among the Royal Mummies, will be analyzed in more details for their correspondence with Africans to the south. Harris and Wente note the prevalence of dental prognathism among Nubians. Often this is combined with malocclusion. Similar incidence can be found in other African peoples. For example, one study found that a sample taken from the Kenya showed 61.3% of Maasai had diastema; 84% of Kikuyu had overbite and 99% had overjet; and 24% of Kalenjin had anterior open bite. (J. Hassanali, GP Pokhariyal, “Anterior tooth relations in Kenyan Africans, Archives of Oral Biology 38 [Apr 1993] 337-42). Although these dental traits can often be acquired through habits like thumb-sucking, as noted by Harris and Wente, the high frequency in the royal mummies indicates a genetic origin as found in Africans. Studies have shown that persons of African descent tend to have greater projection of the alveolar region as compared to the lower mouth. The difference in projection measured as ANB (A point-nasion-B point) and research on persons of African descent has shown ranges from 5.5 to 4.3. In comparison with Caucasians, the values were from about 1.5 to 2 times greater (see Alexander et al., 1978; Downs,1948; Fonseca et al.,1978; Steiner, 1959). After studying all the data, particularly after analyzing the computerized ethcings, one can certainly see that the royal mummies displayed high frequencies of African traits shared with most Africans. Thus, the royal mummies display a strong southern affinity just like other ancient Egyptians of all classes studied by Cheikh Anta Diop, Larry Angel and Shomarqa Keita. See the links below for the tables of data and results, or click on the detailed analysis of the three images from Who was Who among the Royal Mummies. For diagrams and more see here: http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Temple/9845/mummies.htm
blackfacts
USA – Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 15:29:39 (EDT)
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Iskander, I believe that Blackfacts explained what I was saying better than I ever could. The genetics research is not in opposition to what we Afrocentrist were saying. The website, like many others (as you can see from Blackfacts posting), twisted the trueth. If you are using our current concept of race then the Egyptians, like the present day Nubians and Ethiopians, were black Africans. However, you can believe as you wish.
Mack Audena
Age: 20, Pitt, Pa USA – Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 14:36:39 (EDT)
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Before Sherry “Stormfront” white supremacist finds a way to pollute this as well…————-> >Genes hint Africa’s Khoisan world’s oldest people > > By Emma Thomasson > > > CAPE TOWN, Sept 23 (Reuters) – Genetic studies of the Khoisan population of > southern Africa suggest the group could be the world’s most ancient people, > > adding weight to the “Out of Africa” theory of human evolution, scientists > said on Thursday. > > “The Africans who were the earliest humans were likely to be more closely > related to modern Khoisan humans than any others,” Professor Trefor Jenkins, > geneticist at the South African Institute for Medical Research, told Reuters > in an interview. > > Jenkins said changes in mitochondrial DNA showed that modern Khoisan people > have retained some of the genes of human ancestors from 100,000 to 120,000 > years ago while the genes of Eurasian people stretch back only 40,000 to > 60,000 years. > > Mitochondrial DNA is a genetic marker only inherited from the mother. > > Jenkins’ colleague, Dr Himla Soodyall, said the discovery provided further > proof of the “Out of Africa” theory that modern humans evolved from a > common ancestor in Africa and spread across the world between 180,000 and > > 90,000 years ago. > > “What we have found is that some of the most ancient genetic signatures are > still carried in the genes of modern Khoisan people,” she said. “The > hypothesis that seems to be the most favoured is that modern humans evolved > in Africa and a subset of these people left Africa to colonise the rest of > the world.” > > KHOISAN ALL BUT WIPED OUT > > The Khoisan people are indigenous to southern Africa, but have been all but > wiped out as a distinct group after centuries of persecution by European > settlers and competition with other tribes who migrated south from central > Africa. > > A small number of Khoisan maintain their traditional hunter-gatherer > lifestyle on reserves. But the majority have been subsumed into South > Africa’s mixed-race or coloured population and have lost their rich language > > and culture. > > Jenkins said his team was also studying part of the male “Y” chromosome > which showed that Khoisan people and some groups in Ethiopia and Sudan had a > more direct genetic relationship with non-human primates than other > populations on the continent. > > Geneticists estimate that human beings evolved from non-human primates five > to six million years ago and homo sapiens, the modern human being, evolved > between 750,000 and 100,000 years ago. > > “Racists will latch onto this to say it proves Africans are more primitive, > but what it shows is we are looking at modern people who are all descended > from a common ancestor who lived 100,000 to 120,000 years ago,” Jenkins > said. > > Fossils of skeletons about 100,000 years old have been excavated in South > Africa. Scientists have also unearthed sets of fossilised footprints on the > > country’s coast from the same period that appear to have been made by modern > humans. >
blackfacts
USA – Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 14:28:43 (EDT)
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Brother /sister Blackfacts: You are absolutely correct, these white supremists just coincidentally popped up all at the same time and their writing is all similar. Very interesting indeed. Anyway, much of your writing seems to come from the book “No Color Lines”. Have you read it? NOTE: This question is not directed to the neo nazi caucasoids! THUTMOS TURNER
Thutmos Turner
Age: 52, Compton, CA USA – Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 13:44:15 (EDT)
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Here’s a post from a physical anthropologist: This post belongs to P.K. Mansansula: Brace et al’s views about the “trivial” nature of tropical variation is not supported by the evidence. The M-W team “expect” traits like “nasal elevation and elongation,” from long-term residents of the East Horn of Africa, and attempt to prove their point by comparing Europeans with Somalis (who live in a dry environment albeit in the tropics). What they don’t mention is that the Badari, early Naqada and Kerma series possess “blurred margin, platyrrhinism (broad nose), and alveolar prognathism,” (Keita, 1990; also Morant 1925, Stoessiger 1927, Anderson 1968, Strouhal 1971, Chamla 1980) and so did the predominant element of the 1st Dynasty Abydos tombs (Keita 1992, 1993). This agrees with the characteristics of the modern Nubian and Sudanese population and also with the ancient Egyptian iconography. These characteristics, combined with the limb proportions, unjustifiably dismissed by Brace et al, confirm the views of Diop and Keita that the predynastic, early dynastic, Nubian and Sudanese populations are/were of relatively recent tropical African provenance. Egypt is not in tropical Africa, neither are Nubia or Sudan anymore tropical than Somalia. On p. 18, Brace et al state: “From the observation that 12,000 years was not a long enough period of time to produce any noticeable variation in pigment by latitude in the New World and tht 50,000 years has been barely long enough to produce the beginnings of gradation in Australia (Brace 1993a), one would have to argue that the inhabitants of the Upper Nile and the East Horn of Africa have been equatorial for many tens of thousands of years.” This statement, of course, makes the assumption that these peoples were originally white and from the North! If Brace et al do believe in an African genesis of modern humans in tropical Africa (i.e., Ethiopia) why would there be an assumption that those of “the Upper Nile and the East Horn of Africa” would require adaptation rather than the lighter-skinned northern coastal peoples? Brace et al also mention a “circum-Mediterranean basin” in which they attempt to relate the peoples of the Northern Mediterranean with those of North Africa. This again contradicts all the evidence which show that the Maghreb, E, Sedment and other N. African series had great variation, to include tropical and “mulatto” forms that are rare, if found at all, in the N. Mediterranean. The evidence does not support a closer relationship between the northern coastal (Saharan) type with southern Europe than with populations immediately to the south, who shared the same trait of high variability. References Brace et al, “Clines and Clusters vs. “Race”” _Yearbook of Physical Anthropology_, vol. 36, 1993. Diop, C.A., “Historie primitive de l’Humanite: Evolution du monde Moir,” Bulletin de l’Institut francaise d’Afrique Noire, 24, 449. 1962. Ruggeri-Giuffrida, V., “Were the pre-Dynastic Egyptians Lybian or Ethiopians?” _Man_ 32 1915. Ruggeri-Giuffrida, V., “A few notes on Neolithic Egyptians and the Ethiopians.” _Man_, 55, 1916. Keita, S.O.Y., “Further Studies of Crania from Ancient Northern Africa: An Analysis of Crania from First Dyansty Egyptian Tombs, Using Multiple Discriminant Functions” _American Journal of Physical Anthropology_ 87:245-254, 1992. ____, “Studies of ancient crania from northern Africa,” _American Journal of Physical Anthropology_, 83: 35-48, 1990. ____, “Ancient Egyptian Biological Relationships,” _History in Africa_ 1993. Morant, S.G., “The predynastic Egyptian skulls from Badari and their racial affinities,” IN G. Brunton (ed.) _Mostagedda and the Tasian Culture_ 1937. Robins, G. and Shute C. Predynastic Egyptian stature and physical proportions” _Journal of Human Evolution_ 4:313-324, 1986. Strouhal, E. “Une contribution a la question du caratere de la population prehitorique de la haute-Egypte” _Anthropolgie_, 6, 1968. ____, “Evidence of the early penetration of negroes into prehistoric Egypt,” _Egyptian Journal of African History_, 12: 1-9, 1971. [continued] The Brace et al. article is all too alarming in that it appears in a peer-reviewed journal leveling charges of racism against a scholar who spent his life breaking down theories of racial superiority, and the practice of these theories in institutional racism. J.D. Walker states in “The Misrepresentation of Diop’s Views,” _Journal of Black Studies_, Vol.26, No. 1, Sept. 1995, 77-85: “The charge of racism is alway serious and is interesting in light of Brace et al. calling Rushton a “racialist,” a term rarely seen in American writing or heard on American media, and therefore apt to be confusing. The charge that Diop was an inverted racist is countered by the fact, among others, that he was married to a “White” French woman. (Are there any Ku Klux Klan members married to Nigerians?). Diop was an internationalist who cited and had great respect for works of various European writers. He made it quite clear that culture, not “race,” was his primary interest. Diop never said that “Blacks” were genetically superior, which would be racist, although such sentiments divorced from real power can only be judged morally and not from the economic, psychological, and physical damage that anti-Black racism has actually done. The road to Damascus is long. Diop’s widow deserves an apology.” (p.78) Brace et al., like Cavalli-Sforza and company, have attempted to replace the old phenotype concept with a new one of “clusters and clines.” On the surface, these specialists are made out to be anti-racist as they belong to the “no-race” school. But a deeper examination shows that the “clusters and clines” they propose are often only a resurrection of older ideas of the “Great White Race.” Cavalli-Sforza, for example, has tried to relate his genetic research to verify the Indo-European family proposed by Greenberg, and has even shown some inklings toward the more moderate Nostracists. Basically, these “no-race” scholars have been cementing the old concept of a linguistically, and now, genetically, related group of “Caucasoids” (although Brace sometimes avoids this term) speaking mostly Indo-European (IE). At the same time, the older typological language groups have been broken into numerous units, supposedly unrelated not only linguistically but also genetically. Cavalli-Sforza has tried to relate the North Africans to the Southern Europeans, and Brace et al. do the same: “The latter in turn show ties with the inhabitants of the circum-Mediterranean basin past and present.” In fact, this is only a repetition of older theories of Seligman and others who followed the “Aryan Model” described by Bernal. The problem is, despite denying the existence of race according to phenotype, Brace et al. use a phenogram to show ancient Egyptians, Nubians, Somalis, etc., are not related to those in tropical Africa! They ignore the possibility of relationship despite variance (or with variability) as Walker points out regarding the stereotype concept of the “Negro”: “…Negro, like Nordic, should be understood as denoting one ensemble of traits or anatomical trends in the numerous interconnected populations of Saharo-tropical Africa, or just Africa. The “Negro” physiognomy has no priveleged place in the pantheon of African human variation. It does not define African (see Gabel, 1996; Hiernaux, 1975). Brace et al. have a monotypic a priori definition of biological Africans.” Brace et al. set out to prove what cannot be proven by the methods they use, according to their own stated beliefs. Differences in phenotype, by their own standards, cannot show that tropical Africans are unrelated in any way — genetically, culturally, historically–from the peoples of Egypt and the Horn of Africa. Yet this is what they try and do. If they had understood Diop’s model, they would know that all peoples are related, but that tropical Africans and Egyptians, Nubians, etc., are *coextensive* in a variety of ways. This is, of course largely supported by the geographic facts. The “Nilo-Hamitic” (Cushitic) languages spoken by Egyptians, Nubians, Sudanese, and among populations in Ethiopia, Somalia, Kenya, and as far south as Tanganyika. These peoples are coextensive with the Semitic speakers and Chadic speakers in a microlinguistic sense, but not at all with the people of southern Europe. Furthermore, the pyramid tombs found from Ethiopia to Egypt through the Sahara are only one point of correspondence between the AfroAsian cultures of Africa. The Nile River has also been a line of communication between cultures to the North and South, not only in the historical period, but in the prehistoric as well. While Brace et al. asserts the Africoid-like qualities in the Horn of Africa are due to climatic adaptation (by whites?!), they don’t consider the possibility that cranial traits among the northern coastal peoples, as Keita calls them (Keita 1990, 1992, 1993) may also be variation from peoples related to tropical Africans. Walker points this out clearly: “For example, the M-W team explains the clustering of certain cranial series with ones from Europe as being the result of gene flow/migration from Europe without discussing the more likely explanation that the biological characters responsible for the similarity are the result of convergence or chance. This is Seligmanish and nonevolutionary.” (p. 79) Indeed, this hearkens back to theories of the physical variability of “Caucasoids” as opposed to the static, fixed “Negroids,” “Mongoloids,” etc. The old “Dark White” theory proposed that whites could adapt dark skins, broad noses, thick lips, etc., while traits like narrow noses, thin lips, fair skins, etc., were evidence, even when found in isolation, of white intermixture or even white provenance! Yet in examining the ancient Egyptians, Brace et al. ignore the fact that the predynastic Egyptian, early dynastic and Nubian crania all show evidence of tropical adaptation such as broad noses and long, gracile limbs. Other traits they shared with typical tropical African types were alveolar prognathism and blurred nasal margin. (Keita 1992) Such traits have been widely acknowledged in non-Afrocentric works, albeit sometimes with the opprobrium that predynastic population were ruled by a “Caucasoid” ruling class. Indeed we are getting a clear picture of the importance the areas to the South may have played in forming the Egyptian civilization. Recent discoveries have revealed the first tool manufacturing society was located in Zaire. Remains showing similarity to some groups found in Nubia and South Egypt have been found at Gamble’s Cave (Kenya) dating back to 11,000 ot 9,000 B.C.E. (Walker 1995) It was at this time that evidence of movement out of Africa into the Near East has been discovered, possibly connected to the spread of the Afro-Asiatic languages (Bar Yosef, 1987). The direct origin of Egyptian dynastic civilization has been traced to the Nubians, who are closer in phenotype to peoples of sub-Saharan Africa than anyone in Europe or even to northern coastal types. Clyde Ahmad Winters states: “The A-Group people were caled Steu “bowmen.” The Steu had the same funeral customs, pottery, musical instruments, and related artifacts as did the Egyptians. Williams (1987, pp.173, 182) believes that the Qustul pharoahs are the Egyptian rulers referred to as the Red Crown rulers in ancient Egyptian documents. Williams (1987) gives six reasons why he believes that the Steu of Qustul founded Kemetic civilization: 1. direct progessin of royal complex designs from Qustul to Hierakonpolis to Abydos; 2. Egyptian objects in Naqada III a-b tombs; 3. no royal tombs in Lower and Upper Egypt; 4. pharoahic monuments that refer to conflict in Upper Egypt; 5. inscriptions ofthe ruler Pe-Hor that are older than Iry-Hor of Abydos; and 6. the 10 rulers of Qustul, 1 at Hierakonpolis, and 3 at Abydos corrspond to the “historical” kings of the late Naqada period. The findings of Williams support the findings of Diop (1991) because we also understand better now why the Egyptian term royalty etymologically means: (the man) who comes from the South=n y swt=who belongs to the South= who is a native of the South=the King of Lower Egypt, and has never meant just King; in other words king of Lower and Upper Egypt, King of all Egypt. (p.108)” References Bar Yosef, O. (1987) Pleistocene connexions between Africa and Southwest Asia. _African Archaeological Review_, 5, 29-38. Seligman, C.G., (1930) _The races of Africa_, Oxford. Winters, Clyde Ahmad (1994) Valid frame of reference, _Journal of Black Studies_, December 1994. (see previous posts for further references) [continued] Brace et al. and the ‘Dark White’ Theory The Brace et al. article (see previous posts) revives in a subtle, and sometimes not so subtle way the old ‘Dark White’ theory of Bernal’s Aryan Model. The idea that modern humans in Africa were originally “Caucasoid” and that they evolved into “blacks,” stems from the old Aryan Model, and it is the same argument used by the anti-Afrocentric side in the UNESCO conference on African history (See _UNESCO General History of Africa_ vol. II). Brace et al. suggest this scenario when they offer a time line for Somalis and other East Africans to “adapt” their skin pigment to the tropical African climate. The history of these ideas is based on a number of fallacies. One example is the classification of Neanderthals as primitive Caucasoids. This despite such non-Caucasoid traits as broad nose, prognathism and short squat stature. Indeed, the platyrrhine noses of Neanderthals suggest tropical adaptation according to the theories set forth by Brace et al. Such classifications were justified on false assumptions that Caucasoids were more highly variable than other races. In a similar fashion, the Austroloid type was also classified as a primitive Caucasoid (and still is by some), and was said to originate in the Mediterranean. However, as Prof. Diop points out in _Civilization or Barbarism_, new evidence shows the Austroloid type was most likely descended from Pithecanthropes of Java through Ngandong man of Java. Also, remains of this type have been found in Australia and Sri Lanka predating similar finds in the Mediterranean. But most important regarding the area around Egypt is the fact that modern humans first appear in Europe as tropically adapted with “super” tropical limb ratios (Trinkhaus, 1981). They do not become fully cold adapted until about the end of the mesolithic (Jacobs 1993). Brace et al. suggest substantial gene flow from Europe as far south as Somalia on a number of occassions: “…the presence of a palpable early German in Late Dynastic Egyptian cemetery exemplifies the contact that the delta region had with the world to the north and west. The contribution that such individuals surely made to the Lower Egyptian gene pool (Bowman, 1986) could well explain why both our dendograms and our discrimination function analysis suggest that the people of Lower Egypt at the end of Dynastic times had more in common with members of our European regional cluster than was true for the inhabitants of Upper Egypt 3,000 years earlier.” (p.21-22) Not only do Brace et al.’s conclusions differ from earlier work by Keita and Hassan, the idea of such significant gene flow is contradicted by other studies. Limb ratios in northern Egypt, Late Stone Age Egypt and predynastic Egypt are all tropically adapted. There is no “northern port of entry” (Walker, 1995) where limb ratios alter due to gene flow from the north. What Brace et al. also ignore is the fact that most of the genetic variation leading to the types described are found in Africa *before* the presence of modern humans in Europe. In fact, examples of possible prototypes can be found in Kenya thousands of years before the predynastic period, and before any evidence of migration from Europe. They also ignore or trivialize the possibility that any similarities between people in N. Africa and Europe may be due to gene flow from South to North rather than vice a versa. Indeed the earliest migrations must have been in this direction as proven by the limb ratios of early modern humans in Europe. Even as late as Phoenician times, the flow seems to have been more South, or Southeast to North/Northwest. Some of the assertions of Brace et al. are simply ridiculous prima facie. For example, their attempt to show Somalis are closer to Europeans than West Africans. (pp. 17-20) Anyone who has seen the images on CNN, etc., from the American fiasco in Somalia will come to the unbiased conclusion that they are pulling our legs. One of the problems with Brace et al. seems to be their excessive reliance of outdated sources from the “Aryan” period: “Blumenbach, however, saw human form as grading without break from one region to another (Blumenbach, 1865). The continuum could be cut however one might choose to suit one’s convenience. The Egyptians who displayed a mixture of “Hindoo” and “Ethiopian” characteristics were not therefore a mixture of separate “primordial” elements but just what would be expected to occur between one region to another. These expectations are precisely what we are defending in our present treatment…” (p.25) The truth is, though, in suggesting substanial gene flow from Europe, and even Germany, they did the exact opposite and betrayed their Aryan Model biases. References Hassan, F. (1988) The predynastic of Egypt. _Journal of World Prehistory_, 2, 135-185. Jacobs, K.H., (1993) Human postcranial variation in the Ukranian mesolithic-neolithic, _Current Anthropology_ 26(4), 512-514. Trinkhaus, E. (1981) Neanderthal limb proportions and cold adaptation, IN C.B. Stringer (ed.) _Aspects of human evolution_, (pp. 187-224), London: Taylor & Francis) Paul Kekai Manansala —————- Sir E.A. Budge “The prehistoric native of Egypt, both in the old and new Stone Ages, was African, and there is every reason for saying that the earliest settlers came from the South.” “There are many things in the manners and customs and religions of the historic Egyptians that suggest the orignal home of their ancestors was in a country in the neighborhood of Uganda or Punt.” (Sir E.A. Budge, _Egypt_) “The ancient Egyptians were Africans, and they spoke an African language, and the modern people of Eastern Sudan are Africans, and they speak African languages…” (Sir E.A. Budge, _Ancient Egyptian Hierogyphic Dictionary_) Basil Davidson “That the ancient Egyptians were Black (again, in any variant you may prefer)–or, as I myself think it is more useful to say, were African–is a belief which has been denied in Europe since about 1830, not before. It is a denial, in short, that belongs to the rise of modern European imperialism…” (Basil Davidson, reviewing Martin Bernal’s _Black Athena_) —————- According to Keita (1993): “Paoli (1972) found dynastic mummies to have ABO frequencies most like those of the Northern Haratin, a group believed to be largely descended from the ancient Saharans.” (p.140) Livingstone, in _Abnormal Hemaglobins in Human Populations_, discusses the Haratin in connection with high incidence of hemoglobin S and C in North Africa: “The Haratin, who are the Negroid population in the Saharan oases, are the former slaves of the Touareg and are primarily agriculturalists.” (p. 83) Regarding the Nubians, D. L. Greene and Keita cite Greene, Ruffer and Berry in noting the fourth molar variants, third molar agenesis and in particular the rare sub-maxillary hypocone in suggesting the population stability of the Nile corridor over the period from the Mesolithic to the early historic These traits also show the close relationship between Egyptians and Nubians. The fourth molar variants are traits shared with sub-Saharan Africans.
blackfacts
USA – Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 13:27:37 (EDT)
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How humorous. First we have Sherry, a white supremacist asserting ideas of white Nordic ancient Egyptians. Now we have an actual Egyptian claiming a non-African relation of the ancient Egyptians. Fascinating all these dissenters suddenly “appear” onto this site…all at the same time. Harmonic white convergence I presume? Ah well…let us go on. As for the idea of Mediterranean Egyptians and dark whites……————-> Anthropologist G.A. Dorsey in Race and Civilization stated , “Races do not exist; classifications of mankind do.”7 That is to say, the notion of race is one of invention: an attempt to understand the wide range of human variation. With this in mind it can be said then that the division of race is based heavily on man’s bias. In the controversy regarding ancient Egypt’s origins and predominant culture, the idea of racial classification and the dividing lines between these races is key. For those who do not accept the Semitic origins of ancient Egypt there is yet another racial category in which to place the ancient Egyptians: the Hamite. According to Webster’s New World Dictionary a Hamite can be described as, “a member of any of several usually dark-skinned peoples of N and E Africa, including the Egyptians, Berbers, etc.8” To many this is a general description of a Black African. But to those who perpetuate this Hamitic hypothesis however this is not the case. Rather these Hamites fall conveniently into the category of Caucasian. In his work, Races of Africa, Dr. C.G. Seligman makes the following statement: “…the civilizations of Africa are the civilizations of the Hamites, its history the record of these peoples and their interaction with the two other African stocks, the Negro and the Bushman, whether this influence was exerted by highly civilized Egyptians or by such wider pastoralists as are represented at the present day Beja and Somali…The incoming Hamites were pastoral Europeans— arriving wave after wave—better armed as well as quicker witted than the dark agricultural Negroes. 9” Aside from the obvious racism inherent in this statement, there is a confusing play on words. While Seligman links the “highly civilized Egyptians” with the Beja and Somali, he identifies them as Hamites who themselves are separated from “the Negro and the Bushman.” In fact these Hamites, who may have reached as far as Somalia, are classified as “pastoral Europeans.” A somewhat similar viewpoint is held by Dr. Donald Weidner in his work, A Short History of Africa South of the Sahara: “Caspian types also began to appear in western Kenya. They are known variously as Caspian people, early Cushites or early Hamites…These people, it is believed, migrated northeastward into Arabia and western Asia as well as northwestward into Egypt and North Africa. Recent scholars (notably Joseph H. Greenberg) have suggested that the term Cushite be applied to this parent of the Caucasian race, and that their basic language be Afroasiatic (formerly Hamitic)…Cushites who were developing Caucasian characteristics penetrated Egypt about 5,000 B.C.” Though similar in theme, unlike Seligman, Weidner places these mysterious Hamites as originating in the heart of Africa itself, as far as Kenya., and migrating northward. But in accordance with Seligman he readily identifies them with Caucasians. Thus when these supposed Caucasian cranial traits were found to exist in certain Nile Valley populations, it was assumed that these Africans were either Caucasians or hybrids of Caucasians and Africans. In fact, as seen in the quotes of Seligman and Weidner, it was generally accepted that nearly all African populations had experienced some form of Caucasian admixture.11 These Hamites are also known as members of the Brown race, Mediterranean race, Eurafricans, dark-whites and other contradictory names. In her work, The Myth of the Mediterranean Race Dana Reynolds traces the origins of the Hamitic hypothesis. She begins with the following statement: “The anthropological concept of a Mediterranean Race or Mediterranean Type has long been used to denote long-headed gracile types of men anciently inhabiting the lands around the Mediterranean, and alleged by some of its more extreme proponents to be ancestral to modern Europeans and Caucasoid types in Asia and Africa. It is a concept that has been predicated upon erroneous idea, and sustained by fallacious notions of the processes involved in human biological evolution an morphological variation.” Reynolds asserts in this passage that the concept of Hamites and the like are a fallacy. She attributes this pattern of thought to Orientalist theories regarding the origins of civilization in Europe, North Africa, and Southwest Asia. She begins with a discussion on Guiseppe Sergi, Professor of Anthropology in the University of Rome. It is Sergi she believes who first becomes one of the major proponents of the concept of a Mediterranean Race. Through the usage of craniometric data, Sergi classified the Mediterranean and Eurafrican into three separate subgroupings: the African Hamites, the true Mediterraneans such as Southern Italians, and the Nordic race.13 “In his examination of the Hamite, Sergi found his closest modern relative in East Africa, specifically the Horn of Africa. Reynolds makes the following critique of Sergi’s findings: This so-called Hamite or Abyssinian man was immediately inducted by scholars into the saw no irony in portraying such phenotypically diverse people as the Ba-Himas of Uganda, long-headed Russians, Scandanavians, Italians, and Arabs, as representative of his superfamily of Eurafricans. Phenotypical characteristics like skin coloring and hair form were proclaimed ‘external traits without diagnostic value’ because they were ‘subject to environmental influence.’ At the same time, for Sergi, cranio-facial measurements were not viewed as subject to such influence.” Reynolds attributes much of this erroneous interpretation of data to the fact that scholars believed the form of the human skull was a permanent racial character. Sir Grafton Elliot Smith was the next figure to whom Reynolds attributed the proliferation of the Mediterranean myth. A Professor of Anatomy at Cairo’s Egyptian Museum in the early 1900s, Smith based his findings on his examination of a wide variety of human bodies belonging to predynastic and dynastic Egyptians. His findings revealed what he described as people having an effeminate and frail build, poorly developed eyebrows, small broad noses and slight prognathism.15 Of course it would seem with such words, to many, that Smith is describing an African type. But he classifies these people of predynastic and dynastic times as members of the Brown race and, according to Reynolds, vehemently “rejected the thought of a Negroid or Black affiliation of the type generally called Hamitic or Brown.”16 Reynolds makes the following summary of Smith’s findings: “Smith initially designated this type the Brown race on the basis of the coloring of the ancient Egyptian iconography and, secondly, because of what he considered to be the close osteological and cranial affinities with the mainly Cushitic-speaking peoples of East Africa, now called Bedja, Somali, Beni Amer, and Oroma (Galla) in Sudan, Ethiopia, and Eritrea” In this manner did Smith make the ancient Egyptians non-Africans, placing them in the Caucasian branch of humanity. Of the ancient Egyptians, modern Somali, Bedja and other East African types, he asserted there was only a minor Negroid element . Smith goes further in stating that careful examination of the body of West and Central Africans would reveal a profound gap separating the Negro not only from Egypt, but the rest of mankind. Reynolds takes note that Smith, “harshly criticized William Z. Ripley’s 1899 work— The Races of Europe— for asserting that the entire ancient ‘Mediterranean race’ was descended from ‘African Negroes.'” Carleton S. Coon is the next major advocate of the Mediterranean Race pointed out by Reynolds. Using craniometric analysis he describes this Mediterranean type as, “a man of short stature with a cranial index of 73-75, browridges and bone development weak, short face, variable nasal form, paedomorphic and sexually undifferentiated ‘with a slight negroid tendency.'”20 It is this type he finds to predominate in early Egypt. Reynolds shows that Coon makes an even more grandoise claim of these Mediterranean types. She reveals the following about Coon’s assertion of Mediterranean dominance: “Coon reported that excavations in Kenya and Tanganyika had uncovered the remains of a tall, extremely long-headed Mediterranean type with a tendency to great elongation and narrowness of face. Recognizing the morphometric similarities, with characteristic abandon, Coon pronounced the are of the late stone age sites in East Africa, such as Elmenteita and Naivash, ‘ a second southern periphery of the white racial stock: peripheral in this case to the world of the African Negro.’ He speaks of the East African ‘Hamite’ as being ‘without doubt derived from this Palaeolithic racial type.'” Thus Reynolds shows that Coon made Caucasians not only of the ancient Egyptians and modern East Africans, but early stone age African man as well. Reynolds points out that Coon is not alone in such thought. She documents another specialist in African prehistory, Sonia Cole, in describing the tall dolichocephalic peoples of Gamble’s Cave, Naivasha, and Olduvai, as Caucasoids. It is this manner in which the Hamitic or Mediterranean African is separated from other Africans. And thus by populating Egypt with these Mediterranean-Hamitic types, the culture and people of the region can be designated as non-African. But along with Reynolds, there are a host of scholars who question the validity of this Hamitic hypothesis. Historian Cheikh Anta Diop makes the statement, “Coon’s work contributes nothing new. If all the specimens of races and sub-races described by him lived in New York today, they would reside in Harlem.” In his article The Racial Identity of Ancient Egyptian Populations Based on the Analysis of Physical Remains, Keith Crawford critiques Coon’s findings. In an examination of Coon’s Hamitic hypothesis, Crawford notes the following: “Coon (1965) displays a picture of a Shilluk man with Black skin, ulotrichous (wooly) hair and somewhat thickened lips. Under the photo of this unquestionably “Negroid” person is the caption “A Shilluk with European features…’ To the lay person such a statement is most puzzling. Understand that Coon is referring to features of the cranial anatomy, erroneously thought to have resulted from Caucasoid admixture.” In this passage Crawford reveals the inherent contradictions of Coon’s Hamitic arguments. At the center of this debate is the notion of what many have referred to as the “true Negro.” Diop borrows this term from anthropologists who use this racial classification to differentiate what they term to be Black Africans and Hamites. This “true Negro” has such characteristics as black skin, long arms and legs, tall stature, broad shoulders, narrow hips, black and kinky hair, doliocephalic cranium, considerable prognathism, a flat nose and thick often everted lips.25 This definition holds to the idea that Black Africans share one set morphology which is static and unchanging. Thus one can classify those who do not fit this description precisely enough as Hamites with Caucasian features. But Diop criticizes this monotypic classification of Black Africans in the following statement: “Anthropologists have invented the ingenious, convenient, fictional notion of the ‘true Negro,’ which allows them to consider , if need be, all the real Negroes on earth as fake Negroes, more or less approaching a kind of Platonic archetype, without ever attaining it. Thus African history is full of ‘Negroids,’ Hamites, semi-Hamites, Nilo-Hamitics, Ethiopoids, Sabaeans, even Caucasoids!…If the African anthropologist made a point of examining European races ‘under the magnifying glass,’ he would be able to multiply them ad infinitum by grouping physiognomies into races and sub-races as artificially as his European counterpart does with regard to Africa. He would, in turn, succeed in dissolving collective European reality into a fog of insignificant facts.” Thus Diop holds that the rejection of the idea of the true Negro will do away with the notion of Hamites. Crawford states the following regarding this monotypic classification of Africans: “A critical point to understand when studying the racial makeup of Nile Valley populations is that the full diversity of Africoid variants was not often appreciated by the early anthropologists. What anthropologists called the ‘Negro’ identified only one form of Africoid variant common to the forest zone of West Africa…Other Africoid variants are important to our discussion of Nile Valley populations because their range of distribution overlaps or is in close vicinity with the Nile valley. Their physical traits were likely present in ancient Egyptian populations.” Crawford’s statements reveal one of the fundamental errors in the classification of racial types within Africa and the Nile Valley in particular. Crawford identifies several of these Africoid variants. Two of these he describes as the Elongated African variant and the Nilotic variant.28 He notes that, “the Elongated variant is distinguished by a generalized elongated body, narrow head, face and nose, dark skin and spiralled hair, thick but not everted lips.”29 He identifies these Elongated types with the such groups as the West African-Saharan Fulani, the Great Lakes Region Tutsi and Hima, the Masai of Kenya, the Galla of Southern Ethiopia, Tigreans and Amharas from Ethiopia, Somalis and the Beja of Northern Sudan. Crawford cites Hiernaux as stressing, “there is evidence for the continued presence of Elongated traits since Pleistocene times, with no evidence of gene flow from populations outside of Africa…Elongated traits arose as an adaptation to dry heat.” Crawford also cites Hiernaux in his description of the Nilotic variant who are described, in comparison to the Elongated variant, as taller, more narrow headed, lower and wider nosed, of slender build, long legs and little fat.31 These Nilotic types include the Nuer, Dinka, Shilluk and Anuak who occupy the Nile river basins in the southern Sudanese region.32 In conclusion of these observations Crawford makes the following statement: “The preceding discussion should make it clear that African populations display an entire spectrum of phenotypes including those attributed to being characteristic of other races. This must be the case since all races evolved from an African prototype and it was necessary that this type possess the potential to express multiple traits which could then be modified further by the environment. The so-called ‘true Negro’ does not even represent the majority of African types on the continent.” This passage confirms Crawford’s belief that African populations are “poly” rather than monotypic. In conclusion it can be said that past examinations of Nile Valley remains have yielded faulty conclusions due to erroneous stereotypes of African morphology. Numerous works have shown that Africans do not share one set morphology. Thus deviations of this stereotype are not inherently the products of admixture and thus to be classified as Hamitic, Mediterranean, Eurafrican or Caucasoid.
blackfacts
– Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 13:12:23 (EDT)
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Brothers and sister (BLACK): I leave the attempts to educate the Sherry thing to my brothers like Mack. Actually it increases my knowledge of my people as I read their postings. I however, (not in the least criticism of brother Mack)) believe that youcannot argue with the insane. You cannot argue nor teach a savage barbaric racist neo nazi INBRED neanderthal. A SAVAGE IN A BUSINESS SUIT IS STILL A SAVAGE! Our knowledge of “SELF” is proliferating and the savages inbred savages are panic stricken. The Sherry thing has been busted as a neo nazi! This trailer trash white thing has made a fool of itself by trying to pass itself off as an Egyptologist! Why is there no evedence of civilization in Europe???????? The trailer trash never did answer the site moderators question! No white scholar has ever been able to answer …..Why not. Its because the whites were barbarians without a civilization living in caves and having sex with animals. The white Melanin deficient, calcified Pineal, inbred trailer trash coming to this site trying to influence what we as Black people think of ourselves are irrelevant! The only thing that matters is what we think of ourselves. In responce to being the first one to call the other a savage…..WHO CARES!!!!! First or last….the sub-human that calls itself the Sherry is a racist anti-Black savage! The truth told first or the truth told last ….IS STILL THE TRUTH! It is white and its opinion does not matter! I still believe it to be male! THUTMOS TURNER
Thutmos Turner
Age: 52, Compton, CA USA – Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 12:39:10 (EDT)
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Heres some food for thought,Afrocentists say that Kemit(Kmt) mean land of the black people.It clearly does not the ancients always refered to themselves as “remetch en Kemit”(the people of Kemit).Of course if we are too believe Afrocentrics the people who lived in the desert of been red,the truth is of course they weren’t,in fact the word desert comes from the ancient Egyptian word “deshret”(the red land). My friend below said Mr Saafis’s websight was not in conflict with what Afrocentrics are saying, I think if he looked around the webpage properly I think he would that he is wrong. Here are some quotes from the anthropology and genetics section: Genetics of modern Egyptians: :Cavalli-Sforza et al.(1994)compared populations from throughtout the world using extensive genetic data. The North African populations grouped with West Euraisian (European,Middle East)populations rather than Sub-Saharan African populations(including Ethiopians). :Di Rienzo et al. (1994)studied the relationship of three samples (taken from Egyptians,Sardinians, and sub-Saharan Africans), using mitochodrial DNA and simple sequence repeats.In genetic terthe Egyptian sample was closer to the Sardinian than to the sub-Saharan African sample. :Hammer et al. (1997)used seen diferent methods to compute population trees of world populations, using Y-chromosome data.All seven methods grouped the Egyptians with the non-African populations rather than with the sub-Saharan Africans.Egyptians genetic profile resembles that of South Europeans more than any other regional groups in the study. :Poloni et al. (1997).Egyptians and a few other African populationa (Tunisians,Algerians, and even Ethiopeans)Showed a stronger similarity to non-Africans Mediterraneans Than to the remainder of Africans mostly from south the Sahara. :Bosch et al.(1997),using classical genetic marker, calculated Egyptians to be genetically very close to Mediterranean Asians Europeans. Genetics of Ancient Egyptians: :Borgognini-Tarli annd G. Paoli, 1982. The ABO blood type freguencies of ancient Egyptians showed no signs of differing significantly from that that of present-day Egyptians.According to the autors,”the blood-group distribution obtained for Asyut,Gebelen and Aswan necropoles shows resemblances with the present leucoderm population of Egypt and particulary with its more ‘conservative’ fraction (the Copts, MOURANT et al., 1976).” Test done on Ancient Egypian skulls: (for diagram follow the above link or go to http://members.xoom.com/egyptians/index.html) One of the most common ways of assessing population relationships has been comparative analysis of the skull types. Such a study was carried out by the physical anthropologist C. Loring Brace and five co-reserchers who statistically analyzed a range of 24 cranial measurements from diverse world samples, includin ancient Egypians. The results of the analysis suggest that ancient Egyptian crania had with those from southwest Asia and Neolithic Europe, as well as North and Northeast Africa. However, the Egyptian skulls showed little similariy to African crania from the more distant south and west.The above plot shows, as accurately as is possible in two dimemsians, the relationships between craniofacial configurations of the various regional samples> The predynastic sample from upper Egypt lies very close to the West Eurasian group but shows some tendencies toword Northeast Africans(Nubians,Somalis);(on the chart Indians are actually much closer to Somalis and Nubians than the pre dynastic people of upper Egypt) this should not be surprising given Egypts geographical position at the crossroads of Africa ans Asia.The northern Egyptians deviate even more strongly from the tropical African pattern, and indeed thier closest relatives appear to be west Eurasians.Notice that the pooled group of Sub_Saharan Africans from southern, central and western regions of the continent does not resemble Egyptians at all: this group is plotted very distant from both ancient Egyptian Samples. More to come(dental evidence, hair evidence, more cranial,etc.)http://members.xoom.com/egyptians/index.html Ancient Testimony: According to classical Greca-Roman authors, ancient Egyptian contempories had a “medium tone” and looked like northern Indians. The Ethiopians stain the world and depict a race of men steeped in darkness: less sunburnt are the natives of India: the land of Egypt, flooded by the the Nile, darkens bodies more mildly owing to the inundation of its fields; it is a country nearer to us and its moderate climate imparts a medium tone. -Manilius,Astronomica 4.724 Here the term Ethiopians(=Greek”burnt face”, denoting very dark skin) refers to the inhabitantn south of Egypt and roughly corresponds to what early anthropologist would called “Negro.”Although Ethiopians was a very broad term encompassing most Africans and sometimes part of southern Asia(Sri Lanka,Timor), the ancient Greco-Roman writers clearly distinguished the pre-Arab Egyptians from “Ethiopians”. Philostratus wrote that thhe people living near the Nubian bordr were lighter than Ethiopians, and that Egyptians were in turn lighter than those people. There are cases of Greco-Roman authors likening Egyptians to northern Indians, who generally do not look like black Africans. The appearance of the inhabitants is also not very different in India and Ethiopia: the southern Indians are rather more like Ethiopians as thhey are black to look on, and thier hair is black; only they are not so snub-nosed or wooly-haired as the Ethiopians; the northern Indians are most like the EGyptians physically. Strabo confirms in Geography 15.1.13, in almost identical wording: As for the people of India, those in the south are like the Aethiopians in colour, although they are like the rest in respect to countenance and hair (for on account of the humidity of the air their hair does not curl), whereas those in the noth are like the Egyptians. Arrian and Strabo concur that the Egyptians resembled northern Indians — who are usually straight haired and occasionally as light-skined southern Europeans — rather than the darker Dravidian types of southern India.Furthermore, although Arrian and Strabo diffentiate Ethiopians from south Indians in terms of facial form and hair texture, they cite no such differences between the Egyptians and northern Indians. THe Herodotus quote repeatedly cited by Afrocentrists: In efforts to make the ancient Egyptian “black,” Afro-Egyptocentrists have interpreted certain ancient Greco-roman quotes in a way that supports their own views.Perhaps the most frequently cited of these is a qoute by Herodotus describing Egyptians as well as as Colchians of Caucaus as “dark skinned and wooly-haired”.Part of the misinterpretation of this quote stems from their interpreting the greek word melas and its numerous variants as “black” or “white”.There are numerous examples of this usage in Greek literature — one unequivocal example of this usage decribes a rather aged Odysseus magically regaining his youth(Homer Odyssey 16.172-176 With this, Athena tuoched him (Odysseus) with her golden wand.A well washed cloak and a tunic she first of all cast about his breast, and she increased his stature and his youthful bloom.Once more he grew dark of colour(melenchroies), and his cheaks filledout, and dark grew the beard abuot his chin. In decribing the skin tone of Odysseus, Homer uses the word melenchoies, which is a different spelling of the same word that Herodotus used to decribe the colour of the Egyptians. However it is clear from the above passage that Homer means “of swarthy complexion” rather than racially “black” and is meant to describe Odtsseus regaining his youthful colour. Otherwise we would have to assume that during the process of rejuvenation Odysseus became a black man!This despite the numerousancient artistic portrayals of Odsseus as Greek-looking and plainly not black.In fact if we interpreted other works the same literal way Afrocentrists interpret Herodotus and other writers, we would have to assume that Greek trees truly black-leaved(melamphullos),and that Greeks bled black blood(haima melan, etc). Herodottus decribing the hair of Egyptians as oulotriches(=”wooly haired”) seems to conflict with other writers such as as Strabo,Arrian and the unknown autor of Physiognomonica who mention only the Ethiopians and not the Egyptians as having wooly hair.At first sight it seems unclear whether Herodotus accurately described the whole Egyptian population or simply citing a stereotype reresenting the “extreme” Egyptian type relative to the Greek perspective (much like “the tall,blond blue eyed” stereotype of Swedes).Lukilly in this case we do not have to rely on Herodotus’ description when there ids so much physical evidence available.Numerous mummies with still attached to the skuls show that straight ,wavy, or gently curled hair types were common in ancient Egypt.For an example , in a study (TItlbachova and Titlbach,1977) involing hair samples detailed microscopic investigation of hair samples taken from ancient Egyptian mummies, most were determined to have been naturally straight,wavy, of gently curled, with roundish cross-section typical of modern Eurasian and North African peoples.Only a small minority showed evidence of “negroid” structural charactoristics; even these “negroid” elements were weakly manifested.Nevertheless, in ancient as well as modern Egypt, the hair is on average curlier than that of Greeks — an obsevation which probably accounts for Herodotus’ stereotyping Egyptian hair as oulriches.But Herodotus mentions only “Etiopians” as having the “woolliest hair of all men”(Herodotus Histories 7.70.1) —More to come. http://members.xoom.com/egyptians/index.html
Iskander Wagdi
Tanta, Egypt – Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 11:58:41 (EDT)
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I didnt post the muslim/islamic sayings. Check the ip# on it, it wasnt me. Also, is this your scape-goat? Now…when you CANT answer the FACTS with FACTS…suddenly…your not going to post no more? HHmmm, I proved my point, and anyone can see that..all they have to do is scroll down, READ, and compare.Its very childish of you to spam the board by posting your same boring long message 3 times…grow up. Also, in response to your comment of the first one to call another “savage & barbaric” is thr one who is really “uncivilized”…well, again…scroll down, and you can “thank” your brother Turner from Compton, for being the first to show his true self…afterall, he said it first :o) I figured that once you and your people were confronted with the truth, first it would be name calling (which it was), then it would be Anger, (which it was) then the racist name calling would be used, and finally, you “gave-up” because I have confronted you with FACTS that you could not answer , because they are obviously undisputable. You were quite predictable…
Sherry
USA – Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 07:16:38 (EDT)
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African leaders: ‘Let us unite’ OAU summit ends in agreement to speed pace toward One Africa by James Muhammad Editor Heads of State join Libya in celebrating 30 years of revolution Gadhafi calls for reparations for African slave trade SIRTE, Libya—In the face of mounting competition from global economic blocs and the threat of neo-colonialism, African leaders meeting here for the 4th Extraordinary Summit of the Organization of African Unity (OAU) determined that Africa would become the world’s largest economic and political bloc, and perhaps the leader of the next millennium. A record 43 heads of state answered the call of Libyan leader Muammar Gadhafi for the urgent Sept. 8-9 sessions to discuss the pace at which Africa is moving in the face of such global challenges. Col. Gadhafi, following the example set by the great revolutionary and Ghanaian President Kwame Nkrumah, and others, specifically called for the establishment of a United States of Africa, with its own central bank, military and parliament. The extraordinary meeting culminated a 10-day celebration of the September 1st Revolution (The Great Al-Fatah Revolution). The colors of each African nation’s flag decorated cities throughout Libya, African dance troupes performed nightly on the central square in Tripoli and revolutionary slogans and photographs of African presidents draped walls and billboards. A massive parade Sept. 7 in Tripoli witnessed by nearly two dozen heads of state, Palestinian leader Yassar Arafat, Algerian revolutionary Ahmed Ben Bella, a Nation of Islam delegation led by Chief of Staff Leonard F. Muhammad, and others marked the official observation of the Revolution. The parade was delayed until Sept. 7 for the presidents’ arrival. Announced near midnight on their target date of 9-9-99, OAU Secretary General Salim Ahmed Salim told more than 100 journalists that the leaders had agreed to quicken the pace of unity. “As we prepare to enter the 21st century and cognizant of the challenges … we emphasize the imperative need and high sense of urgency to rekindle the aspirations of our peoples for stronger unity, solidarity and cohesion in a larger community of peoples transcending cultural, ideological, ethnic and national differences. “It is our conviction that our Continental Organization needs to be revitalized in order to be able to play a more active role and continue to be relevant to the needs of our peoples and responsive to the demands of the prevailing circumstances,” he said. The OAU determined it would: •Quicken the pace of implementing the 1991 Abuja Treaty which established an African Economic Community •Speed up the process of establishing all of the institutions provided in the Treaty—an African Central Bank, an African Monetary Union, an African Court of Justice and a Pan-African Parliament •Strengthen and consolidate existing regional economic communities •Mandate its Council of Ministers to ensure implementation of those decisions, particularly to prepare the legal text necessary in light of the existing Charter and the Abuja Treaty •Mandate OAU Chairman and Algerian President Abdelaziz Bouteflika and South African President Thabo Mbeki to engage African creditors with the goal of securing the total cancellation of Africa’s debt. Mr. Salim said the OAU would establish the Pan-African Parliament by the year 2000 in order to provide a common platform for African peoples and grass roots organizations to be more involved in discussions and decision making on problems and challenges facing Africa. A return to Sirte The Council of Ministers should submit its report on implementation at the next meeting of the OAU scheduled for Lome, Togo, next year, he said, adding that December 2000 is the target date for ratification of the agreements. Then the OAU would return to Sirte in the year 2001 to adopt the document, he said. “This is a very, very serious milestone. Africa for a long time has been underestimated because we have not been united,” Liberian President Charles Taylor told The Final Call shortly after the meeting as the heads of state hurried to their cars after long hours of debate and discussions. “The time for unity is now, the unity will be organized. We are moving toward a parliamentary situation, and then the problems of Africa … can come into focus because we have decided that we are going to unite as a union.” Ghana’s Deputy Foreign Minister Mohamed Ibn Chambass called the deliberations “very profound and very radical. We needed to be taking these steps (toward consolidating Africa) decades ago. We are happy that Africa has now realized we need to take our destiny into our own hands and catch up with the rest of the world.” Throughout the summit meetings, Col. Gadhafi worked with a determination to reemphasize the need for unity. He dressed in his traditional Arab garments for the official meetings and dinners, but journalists and delegates alike were well aware of his focus on aligning himself closer to his African neighbors, particularly following their decision at an OAU summit in Ouagadougou, Burkina Faso, to defy the UN ban against flights into Libya. That move in 1998, observers feel, was a major dent in the wall of U.S.-led sanctions on Libya, whom the U.S. holds responsible for the 1988 bombing of Pan Am flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland. Col. Gadhafi had accused Arab leaders of the Middle East of not standing with him in the face of sanctions. “We’ve been waiting for this day with a particular eagerness,” Col. Gadhafi said to foreign ministers Sept. 7, at a preliminary meeting in Tripoli prior to the official opening the summit. He said any union Africa determines must be comprehensive—economics, politics and culture. Mr. Gadhafi invoked the name of Mr. Nkrumah as the catalyst for the meeting. He also said that everything needed for a new charter already exists in the Abuja Treaty. The institutions were there, he said, but they were bodies without souls. “We want something considerable … a new soul to bring life to these institutions and bodies,” he said. The way forward While Africa is still a continent in crisis, all agreed that the mandate of the original OAU Charter—fighting colonialism—has been achieved. The focus now is to bring internal stability to member states—some of whom are involved in civil wars and rebel attacks against their governments—so that the countries can gain control of their mineral and human resources to strengthen their economies. The way forward must be deliberate, yet careful, most observed. In debating his point at the inception of the OAU Charter, Mr. Nkrumah argued that an African “continental union government” would have a two-house legislature: an upper house of two members from each state and a lower house based on the population of each state, with power to formulate a common foreign policy, common continental planning for economic and industrial development, a common currency, monetary zone and a central bank of issue and a common defense system with one military High Command, according to “Inside the OAU: Pan-Africanism in Practice” (1986) by C.O.C. Amate. “Since the conception of the OAU in ’63 we have been advocating unity and solidarity,” said OAU spokesman Ibrahim Daggash. “We used it in the liberation struggle and we succeeded. Why don’t we use it in our economic struggle as well? “We have to refuse marginalization. In the new millennium there’s no place for small entities. It should be viable political and economic groupings,” he said. “If we succeed in an intergrational process (in other areas), we’d succeed also in a common monetary unit. But we still have a long way to go,” said Liberian Foreign Minister Monie Captan, referring to what has happened with the European Union. Among the special guests at the summit were Gamel Nkrumah, son of the late Kwame Nkrumah, and Roland Lumumba, son of the late Congo freedom fighter Patrice Lumumba. At the close of the Summit, after giving Revolution Awards to the heads of state present, Col. Gadhafi, in a symbolic uniting of the past, present and future, awarded both sons the Revolution Award. With a horde of photographers chasing them, Col. Gadhafi walked out of the hall hand-in-hand with Nkrumah and Lumumba. “My father would have been proud of Gadhafi today,” the young Nkrumah told The Final Call in an interview. “I wish he could be around to see that somebody else has taken up his dream very seriously. It would have been a great day for him.” Copyright © 1999 FCN Publishing ” Pooling our resources and doing for self ”
jahreal
USA – Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 03:14:03 (EDT)
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(PART 2) (PART 1 BELOW THIS POST) >The Black List – http://www.theMarcusGarveyBBS.com > >Made a Chattel Slave: > African slaves’ descendants have tended to look at U.S. Slavery > from a >monolithic if not narrow view. When we think of slavery, we are >essentially thinking of chattel slavery. Even, when we are thinking of >chattel slavery, we are actually referring to physical slavery, or we are >combining the two forms in one. As we have seen from the above, slavery >consisted of a series of illegal acts, all in International Law and >Natural Law. Since we are not parties by human mutuality to the U.S. >Constitution, at no point in Real Law or in Hard Law, do our Real Rights >come under U.S. Constitutional Law. All of the illegal acts committed >against us as explained above are International and Natural Law acts. >And as we shall see, nothing else to the present has occurred in Real Law >that has brought our Real Rights into U.S. Constitutional Law, since we >have been under One Continuous Act(s) of enslavement to the present via >unilateral White illegal acts to maintain U.S. Slavery under a myriad of >forms that still spell slave without self-determination and without our >true liberties as human beings. >Chattel refers to personal property as opposed to real property. Real >chattels, as opposed to personal chattels, are such as leasehold estates, >interests issuing out of, or annexed in real estate, such as chattel >interests as devolve after the manner of realty. Upon arrival onto a new >jurisdiction by force into a territory, we were made personal property to >be sold as contraband. Contraband is defined in Black’s Law Dictionary, >6th edition p. 322 as, “…any property which is unlawful to produce or >possess.” The illegality of our being sold as personal chattel property >contraband emerges out of International and Natural Law, a violation of >our Human Rights. We were made a thing to be sold, like a cow or pig, >without a nationality or identity other than as property; in short, an >animal or just a person (later 3/5 of a person). >After being sold and/or resold as personal chattel property contraband, >we were made Physical Slaves, working without pay and without >Reparations. The famous quote from Frederick Douglass, “As long as we are >not the direct beneficiaries of our labors, we are still slaves.” >Douglass’ statement carries a great deal of common sense weight, but >hundreds of years of subjugation and propagandization had made us Mental >Slaves based upon White illegal unilateral acts including forced >illiteracy. A Mental Slave has a great difficult understanding that >he/she is still a slave based upon Douglass’ statement. Based upon our >unpaid wages and the continued profits from those unpaid wages, including >the profits from seized slave scientific inventions and innovations, the >wealth of America is our legal property. The U.S. Black/African slaves’ >descendants population is currently working for money that previous labor >has already purchased. And, after being charged twice for the same wages, >we are spending money on goods and services that we legally already own. >By 1865, what noted Black social psychologist Amos S. Wilson calls “the >most successful human brainwashing enterprise in history,” referring to >U.S. Slavery, we had become Automated Slaves, a slave who will behave as >a slave even without being seized. The 13th and 14th Amendments and The >Civil Rights Act of 1866 made us Legislated Slaves with a legal status >and so-called Civil Rights unilaterally determined by the U.S. Congress >and The U.S. Supreme Court. >The U.S. Congress in 1865 had the clear choice and opportunity to ask >slaves if we wanted to be U.S. Citizens, if we wanted to associate with >the U.S. Government, as were Whites asked on July 4, 1776. This would >have been treating us as human beings. But to treat us as human beings >would have also meant paying us Reparations, which the U.S. Congress >wanted to avoid at all cost. The decision was to make us so-called U.S. >Citizens without asking us. This also was a mammoth of a White propaganda >piece with regard to the International Relations of the U.S., as the >world thought that U.S. Slaves were being freed. How can your slave >become your citizen without self-determination? It can be done because >his/her status is still a slave; because the slave is still in slavery. >The 14th Amendment is quite didactic: > >Amendment XIV [1868] Section 1. “All persons born or naturalized in >the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens >of the United States and of the State wherein they reside…” > > Well, who in the heck are “all persons”? It must be clear that since >White People were already U.S. Citizens by human mutuality, not by >legislated Civil Rights in which they had no choice, The 14th Amendment >could not have been written for them. A discussion of White immigrants is >not germane. We are discussing U.S. Slavery, about U.S. Slaves. > >From the very definition of domicile of origin, a White person born in >the U.S. where his/her parents have domicile is clearly already an U.S. >Citizen. There would be no reason to restate this in an Amendment to the >U.S. Constitution. On the other hand, all African slaves by 1868 were >born in the U.S. as persons, indeed as 3/5 of a person. If we were >naturalized, where are our naturalization papers? >Slaves are captives. It is a slave who is a subject, brought by force >into a new jurisdiction into a territory and unilaterally made residents >in a State with The 14th Amendment, and made a Citizen who had no choice >in his/her Citizenship, i.e. a Legislated Slave. The Law is subject to >you if you are free, consent of the governed. Slaves are subjects to the >Law via forced jurisdictional association. The context in which the U.S. >Population is viewed from a legal standpoint, with regard to status or >standing, is set in Article 1, Section 3: > >”Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several >States which may be included within this Union, according to their >respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole >number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of >Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other >Persons.” > > It is clear from the above that “the whole number of free > Persons” makes >reference to free White People. Here is an admission that there are both >free Persons and subjects. But added to “the whole number of free >Persons” are White indentured servants. So, White indentured servants >were given their liberties in 1776 via U.S. Public Law to which they are >parties. Section 3 ends rather conspicuously, defining the remaining >population for taxation purposes, as “three fifths of all other Persons.” >These are slaves, Africans. > Twenty-four hours prior to making The 14th Amendment law, the U.S. >Congress issued The Expatriation Act of 1868, by which anyone had the >right to expatriate from the U.S. to another jurisdiction. After 246 >years of U.S. Slavery, slaves had 24 hours to expatriate. Very few slaves >had any knowledge of The Expatriation Act of 1868. It was simply another >unilateral illegal act, just as The 13th and 14th Amendments and The >Civil Rights Act of 1866, forced upon slaves without our input, >violations of our Human Rights. >These unilateral White acts were secondly, a manner by which the issue of >Reparations for U.S. Slavery could be eclipsed at an high point in U.S. >and global abolitionism, by presenting the impression to the world >community that slaves had been freed. In legal reality, these unilateral >acts were part of a long strand of White continuous acts of enslavement >of the African. >Stripped of our social systems of mutual trust by U.S. Slavery and the >plantation caste system, U.S. Slaves today are the only ethnic group >without a social system that applies to ourselves. As such, we have no >economic system as do other ethnic groups have beneath the dominant >economic system, since an economic system cannot exist without a social >system of mutual trust among members of a Class. As the world’s largest >slave liquid economy, we still have an economic value per head to White >People. > >MORE TO COME > >Contact Information: Attorney Dr. Robert L. Brock, P.O. Box 15288, >Washington, D.C. 20003. Website: http://www.directblackaction.com > >For a general overview of Black Reparations, visit: >http://ReadingDoctor.com/slavery.htm > >
jahreal
USA – Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 03:10:12 (EDT)
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List – http://www.theMarcusGarveyBBS.com > >Dr. Brock Presents Proof That We Are Still U.S. Slaves in 1999 > >A report on the Atlanta September 1999 Black Reparations Conference >By Oscar L. Beard, Consultant in African Studies >Website: http://ReadingDoctor.com/slavery.htm >Brock Website at: http://www.directblackaction.com > >ªªª > > Attorney Dr. Robert L. Brock, Preseident of the Self Determination >Committee, began his comments on “Status of U.S. Slaves’ Descendants in >Regards to Reparations and Self-Determination Under International Law” by >stating that the greatest obstacle to a clear explanation of our ongoing >legal status as U.S. Slaves is the popular belief by African slaves’ >descendants that “We sold each other into slavery.” The cardinal concern >of Black or African Reparations are those nations whose current economies >are built upon the backbone of African enslavement, including >corporations whose profits can be traced to the enslavement of Africans >and nations trading with the U.S. during chattel slavery. This would >exclude African individuals and nations, since both African individuals >and African nations came under the influence of European aggression and >were not benefactors of the African so-called Slave Trade though caught >up in it. To be sure, the African so-called Slave Trade was a >demand-driven market out of Europe and America, not a supply-driven >market out of Africa. >Furthermore, if there is any in-house cleaning that African slaves’ >descendants need to do regarding Africans used as middle-men in the >capture of African slaves, middle-men who were frequently slaves >themselves, we will do so. Dr. Brock then proceeded to delineate the >unilateral acts, primary and original acts by which Africans continue to >be enslaved by Europeans and/or Whites in the U.S. > >In the European Mind: >An a priori act was the conception and intention in the mind of the >European to travel to Africa to capture bodies into slavery. There were >no African kings or queens in Europe when Europeans decided to invade >Africa for bodies. > >The Invasion of Africa: >Hence, the first unilateral act was the invasion of Africa by Europeans >in order to capture bodies, not gold, not land, but bodies for slavery. >We did not invite Europeans to Africa to capture bodies. They were/are >transgressors. The Portuguese attacked Africa in 1444, killing resisting >Africans, and capturing, seizing and illegally transporting other >Africans to Europe into slavery. There were no Africans among the >attackers or transgressors. With knowledge of their superior military >capability, the gun, the Europeans felt quite confident in attacking >unilaterally. This original act of aggression set the adaptive context by >which all further encounters between Europeans and Africans were to take >place. Trade denotes human mutuality within a context of free will >without force. >The primary act of force against Africans established fear as the news >traveled of the devastating military capability of the Whites. As such, >trade in the usual sense was forever made impossible. The conditions >under which the so-called trade was to be conducted were based upon the >use of an overwhelming deadly force, posturing the use of force and/or >the use of deception and high power intoxicants. These are facts that >African slaves’ descendants need to face if we seek ever to rebuild our >social systems of mutual trust out of the spoils of U.S. Slavery. > >War of Enslavement: >African resistance to European aggression issued forth the War of >Enslavement, an undeclared war, bodies as weapons due to African >resistance; killing the resisting object of captivity, bodies. Add these >killings to the numbers of the Black Atrocity. The West African phase of >the African military resistance to European aggression is most >classically chronicled in Michael Crowder’s West African Resistance, >Africana Publishing Corporation, New York, 1971. The fact of West African >military resistance to slavery, European imperialism and colonialism is >not well known. > >Capture and Seizure: >The third unilateral act of enslavement by Europeans was the capture and >seizure of Africans. Once captured there was a strong African >determination to escape physically (including suicide and continued >self-destructive behaviors). To capture the African was not sufficient. >The African had to be seized, yoked, chained and branded. Currently, the >African slaves’ descendant in the U.S. is seized mentally. Capture and >then seizure securely brought the African under the control and dominion >of the European. Pregnant African women captured and seized were >considered a special catch, two slaves in one, and more to come through >rape and forced breeding. Hence, the unborn Black child in the U.S. of >African slaves’ descendant also has a claim for African Reparations. > >Forcible Expatriation: >After capture and seizure we were detained and forcibly expatriated, >forcibly removed from our Common Law Jurisdiction (s) in Africa. We were >forced away from our legal African domicile(s) of origin. Black’s Law >Dictionary, 6th Edition, defines domicile of origin as, “The home of the >parents…domicile of origin constitutes of an infant, and continues until >abandoned, or until the acquisition of a new domicile in a different >place.” (p. 485) >Forced expatriation to a new territory (the U.S.) was not an acquisition. >It meant the loss of our African citizenship, language, culture and our >Natural and Human Rights. But we did not loose self-preservation, which >can still be exercised, via our real Rights in Natural Law and in >International Law. > >Illegal Transport: > The fifth unilateral act by Europeans was the illegal transport of >Africans across seas into Admiralty Law and International Law. >International waters begin three miles off shore. This is in violation of >our Human Rights in Natural Law and in International Law regardless of >whether from the perspective of European national laws slavery was >considered to be legal or illegal. It is illegal with respect to our >Human Rights. We never agreed to be transported or to be slaves. It is >astonishing how many African slaves’ descendants believe that slavery was >legal. > >Arrival Into Another Jurisdiction By Force: > Brought onto land, into a territory, not into a county or a state or >colony as citizens or as immigrants. Where are our immigration papers? >Where are the papers our ancestors signed agreeing to be U.S. Citizens? >Our status as captives with a place, not a nationality, persons forced >away from our legal domicile of origin(s), Africa, which will remain our >legal domicile of origin until legally abandoned via human mutuality to >transfer jurisdiction to a new domicile, which we have not done. Without >domicile there is no legal jurisdiction, except, in our case forced >jurisdiction, which is illegal in International Law and in Natural Law. >Without jurisdiction, there is no proof of crime. > >Made a Chattel Slave in a Territory: (more to come soon) >_____________________________________________________
jahreal
USA – Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 03:04:59 (EDT)
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To Sherry, I believe your questions have been answered. Egypt was black you don’t except it you can leave. I think the intelligent people here can see that you have lost this battle. Oh, and believe me your remarks about Africa was not getting me upset. I know I sparked something in you when I spoke of the Fall of Western Civilization, so much so you had to pretend to be Pro-Truth. Sherry, you wannabe Egyptologist, I am going to listen to Curtis’ advice. From henceforth, you will be ignored. As for Maskat, you are right about one thing. The premise was wrong because it was Muslims that begin the process of enslaving our people, the Europeans were just more evil. You posted quotes of ignorant, racist, close-minded Muslims who had no appreciation for a difference in culture. They, like the Europeans and your self, could not see that just because Africans didn’t behave in the manner with which they associated with being civilized did not mean that they weren’t civilized. And it is quite interesting because Islam, like Judaism and Christianity was highly influenced by African culture. Here’s and example ” The most profound influences upon Islam by African religions can be seen in the goddesses of ancient Arabia. It is often disputed whether these deities are originally Arabian or African. As ancient Saba included what is today Ethiopia and southern Yemen, we shall designate these deities Afroasiatic just as the Semitic tongue is called. Long before Allah, Arabia was home to an Afoasiatic goddess called All’at. This goddess was popular all throughout Arabia and was worshipped by the Prophet’s family himself. Another goddess was El’Ka’ba. Long before Mohammad, the jet black stone at Mecca was a holy site to the worshippers of El’Ka’ba who came to kneel at her symbol, a jet black stone. It should be again noted that as in the Hebrew Cabala, the Islamic Ka’ba refers to the two parts (Ka and Ba) of the Kemetan soul. Pictured here is the Islamic holy site of the Ka’ba attended by millions yearly. (Photo and Information courtesy of African Origins of Western Religions by Dr. Yosef-ben Jochannan and Man, God and Civilization by John G. Jackson)… Kitab Fakhr As-Sudan ‘Ala Al-Bidan, “The Book of Glory of the Blacks over the Whites.” Al-Jahiz in his work contended that even the Prophet Mohammad’s father may have been of African lineage.”============================= But any way here is some evidence of African civilization in your terms. “When they (European navigators) reached the Bay of Guinea and alighted at Vaida, the captains were astonished to find well-planned streets bordered for several leagues by two rows of trees; for days they traversed a countryside covered by magnificent fields, inhabited by men in colorful attire that they had woven themselves! More to the south, in the Kingdom of the Congo, a teeming crowd clad in silk and velvet, large States, well ordered down to the smallest detail, powerful rulers, prosperous industries. Civilized to the marrow of their bones…This flowering the European conquistadors destroyed as they advanced.” Leo Frobenius, German ethnologist============================ “Under Sundiata and his immediate successors, Mali expanded rapidly west to the Atlantic Ocean, south deep into the forest, east beyond the Niger River, and north to the salt and copper mines of the Sahara. The city of Niani may have been the capital. At its height, Mali was a confederation of 3 independent, freely allied states (Mali, Mema, and Wagadou) and 12 garrisoned provinces. The most significant of the Mali kings was Mansa Musa(1312-1337) who expanded Mali influence over the large Niger city-states of Timbuctu, Gao, and Djenné. Mansa Musa was a devout Muslim who built magnificent mosques all throughout the Mali sphere of influence. In 1324 Mansa Musa made a pilgrimage to Mecca with an entourage of 60,000 people and 80 camels carrying more than two tons of gold to be distributed among the poor. Of the 12,000 servants 500 carried a staff of pure gold. It has been said that the gold markets of regions such as Egypt were ruined for months or years after Musa’s visit through their respective kingdoms.” (http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Classroom/9912/ancientmali.html).======================================== “At least by 1,000BC Ethiopia, Eritrea and what is southern Yemen were part of a large empire known as the Sabean Kingdoms. The connections of Ethiopia and Arabia should not be surprising as the distance between the East African horn and Southern Arabia is minimal. In fact recent linguistic study indicates that the Semitic languages of Arabia and the Middle East may well be a branch of a larger Ethiopian language group. It is also well known that this Eastern Horn-Arabian route was used for millennia by the earliest homonid migrants who later populated Asia. The people of Sabea were probably a mixture of East Africans and their Southern Arabian descendants who had long populated the region. Saba had a very matrifocal society with a host of female dieties. According to the Kebra Negast, a holy book of Ethiopia, it is said that Makedda herself created a dictate stating “only a woman can rule. Polyandry, the practice of taking more than one husband by a woman, and tracing one’s kinship based upon matrilineal descent was common. The earliest known Arabian temple was at Marib (in Southern Yemen), capital of Saba, and was called Mahram Bilqus, “precincts of the Queen of Saba.” The Arabs called this woman, Bilqus or Balkis; in Ethiopia, Makedda (also Magda, Maqda and Makera), meaning “Greatness.” Years later, the Jewish historian Josephus, referred to her as “Nikaulis, Queen of Ethiopia.” She is the celebrated Queen of Sheba of the Bible who is described as “black and comely.” Located in a strategic location, Saba flourished as a trading community in goods from Asia as well as Africa. Even coffee drinkers trace the original cup to Ethiopia’s Kefa region. Pictured above are the ruins of Marib, built between the 1st and 2nd Millennium BC. (Photo and Information Courtesy of Yemeni website and African Presence in Early Asia ed. by Ivan Van Sertima)”============================ “Located in the south central African nation of Zimbabwe are the ruins of monuments and cities built of stone. These ruins extend a radius of 100 to 200 miles, a diameter almost as great as the entire nation of France. Believed to have been built by southern Africans about 600-1,000 years ago, they are evidence of a thriving culture in the heart of Africa. Up until recent years, the ruins were believed by Western historians to be the remains of a “mysterious white race” in the heart of Africa. Great Zimbabwe has been ravaged by European treasure hunters and amateur archaeologists. Layer after layer of African artifacts were trashed in order to reach the bottom layer which, it was assumed, would prove that whites had exerted early influence in southern Africa. How many artifacts and important pieces of this ancient culture was lost is unknown. It is only in the last several of decades since Zimbabwe became independent in 1980 that archaeologists have begun to take a serious look at ruins of Great Zimbabwe and similar sites representing a dynamic social, economic and political culture in Southern Africa. Pictured above is the great walled enclosure of Great Zimbabwe. (Photo and information courtesy of MCC)”====================================== “Fueled by its economic vitality, the kingdom of Ghana rapidly expanded into an empire. It conquered local minor states, requiring tribute from these subordinate vassals. This tribute, however, was not the main form of Ghana’s wealth. Ancient Ghana boasted a mixed economy of extensive agriculture, iron smelting, stonemasonry, carpentery, pottery, goldsmithing, and cloth manufacturing. A strong trade emerged in goods that passed from western Africa east to Egypt and the Middle East. This trade primarily involved gold, salt, copper,… Pictured above is a gold weight from the Akan people of Ghana. Evidene connects the Akan to the great Kingdom of Ghana. It is seen in names like Danso, shared by the Akans of present day Ghana and the Mandikas of Senegal and Gambia, who have strong links with the medieval kingdom. The matrilineal practice is also shared. The kingdom of Ghana never converted to Islam, even though northern Africa had been dominated by the faith since the eighth century. The Ghanaian court, however, allowed Muslims to settle in the cities and even encouraged Muslim specialists to help the royal court administer the government and advise on legal matters. Unlike the Ghanaians however, their northern neighbors the fervently converted to Islam. In 1076, calling themselves Almoravids, they declared a holy war, or jihad, against the state of Ghana. The Almoravids destroyed the kingdom, converting a great deal of northern Ghanians. After this however Ghana ceases to be a commercial or military power. For a brief time (1180-1230), the Soso people, who were strongly anti-Muslim, controlled a kingdom making up the southern portions of the Ghanaian empire, but the Almoravid conquest effectively halted the growth of kingdoms and empires in the Sahel for almost a century. It was to be Mali who would later pick up the legacy of the Sahelien states.” (http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Classroom/9912/ancientghana.html).==== “Due to the enormous length of the Arab Slave Trade, from 700 to 1911AD, it is impossible to be certain of the numbers of Africans sold in this system. Estimates place the numbers somewhere around 14 million: at least 9.6 million African women and 4.4 African men.” (http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Classroom/9912/easterntrade.html)=== It is very interesting to find that the most uncivilized and barbaric of people are the quickest to label someone uncivilized. My black people take pride in your history and in your culture and look towards building the future. Hotep.
Mack “DaNo1Narmer” Audena
Age: 20, Pitt, Pa USA – Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 01:45:00 (EDT)
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This comment is directed to the poster who believes Walter Rodney’s premise about “How Europe Underdeveloped Africa”. The truth is that the black countries were underdeveloped well before the advent of European colonialism. Below I have included many racist and disdainful writings from medieval Islamic writings about blacks (Zanj). The Islamic scholars’ intense level of contempt for the barbarism of black cultures, as well as a belief in an inferior black intellect, suggests that the level of civilization in most black countries was extremely primitive even before Europe entered the picture. It’s a far cry from “ruling the world.” ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** Of the neighbors of the Bujja, Maqdisi had heard that “there is no marriage among them; the child does not know his father, and they eat people — but God knows best. As for the Zanj, they are people of black color, flat noses, kinky hair, and little understanding or intelligence.” – Maqdisi (fl. 966 AD), _Kitab al-Bad’_, vol.4 ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** “We know that the Zanj are the least intelligent and the least discerning of mankind, and the least capable of understanding the consequences of actions.” – Jahiz (d. 868 AD), _Kitab al-Bukhala’_ ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** “Like the crow among mankind are the Zanj for they are the worst of men and the most vicious of creatures in character and temperament.” – Jahiz, _Kitab al-Hayawan_, vol. 2 ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** “They [the Shu`ubiyya] maintain that eloquence is prized by all people at all times — even the Zanj, despite their dimness, their boundless stupidity, their obtuseness, their crude perceptions and their evil dispositions, make long speeches.” – Jahiz, _Al-Bayan wa`l-tabyin_, vol. 3 ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** “[inhabitants of sub-Saharan African countries] are people distant from the standards of humanity” “Their nature is that of wild animals….” – from the Persian geography _Hudud al-`alam_, 982 AD ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** “The Zanj are slight-witted (_kam ‘aql_), and God, most high, has created them stupid, ignorant, and foul (_palid_).” from anonymous _Iskandarnamah_, 1343 AD ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** “Galen says that merriment dominates the black man because of his defective brain, whence also the weakness of his intelligence.” – Mas`udi (d. 956 AD), _Muruj al-dhahab_ ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** “As regards southern countries, all their inhabitants are black on account of the heat of their climate. Most of them go naked. In all their lands and provinces, gold is found. They are people distant from the standards of humanity.” – Persian geography _Hudud al-`Alam_, 982 AD ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** About the Zanj: “Their nature is that of wild animals. They are extremely black.” About the Sudan: “Among themselves there are people who steal each other’s children and sell them to the merchants when the latter arrive.” – _Hudud al-`Alam_, 982 AD ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** “The Zanj are so uncivilized that they have no notion of a natural death. If a man dies a natural death, they think he was poisoned. Every death is suspicious with them, if a man has not been killed by a weapon.” – Abu Rayhan al-Biruni, _India_, 1030 AD ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** “If (all types of men) are taken, from the first, and one placed after another, like the Negro from Zanzibar, in the Southern-most countries, the Negro does not differ from an animal in anything except the fact that his hands have been lifted from the earth,–in no other peculiarity or property,–except for what God wished. Many have seen that the ape is more capable of being trained than the Negro, and more intelligent.” – Philosopher-theologian Nasir al-Din Tusi (1201-74), _Tasawwurat_ ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** “Therefore, the Negro nation are, as a rule, submissive to slavery, because [Negroes] have little [that is essentially] human and have attributes that are quite similar to those of dumb animals, as we have stated.” – Ibn Khaldun, _Muqaddimah_, 14th century AD ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** “beyond [known peoples of black West Africa] to the south there is no civilization in the proper sense. There are only humans who are closer to dumb animals than to rational beings. They live in thickets and caves, and eat herbs and unprepared grain. They frequently eat each other. They cannot be considered human beings.” – Ibn Khaldun, _Muqaddimah_ ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** “A man of discernment said: The people of Iraq … do not come out with something between blonde, buff, blanched, and leprous coloring, such as the infants dropped from the wombs of the women of the Slavs and others of similar light complexion; nor are they overdone in the womb until they are burned, so that the child comes out something between black, murky, malodorous, stinking, and crinkly-haired, with uneven limbs, deficient minds, and depraved passions, such as the Zanj, the Ethiopians, and other blacks who resemble them. The Iraqis are neither half-baked dough nor burned crust but between the two.” – Ibn al-Faqih al-Hamadani, _Mukhtasar Kitab al-Buldan_, 903 AD ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** “[Blacks] are ugly and misshapen, because they live in a hot country.” – Ibn Qutayba (828-89 A.D.) ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** “The geographer al-Idrisi ascribes ‘lack of knowledge and defective minds’ to the black peoples. Their ignorance, he says, is notorious; men of learning and distinction are almost unknown among them, and their kings only acquire what they know about government and justice from the instruction of learned visitors from farther north.” – BernardLewis, _Race and Slavery in the Middle East_, 1990 ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** “In both Arab and Iranian Islamic writings, blacks are accused of being stupid, untruthful, vicious, sexually unbridled, ugly and distorted, excessively merry, and easily affected by food and drink.” – Minoo Southgate, “Negative Images of Blacks in Some Medieval Iranian Writings,” Iranian Studies 17 (1984): p.10
Maksat Tohme
Huntington Beach, CA USA – Tuesday, October 19, 1999 at 01:10:06 (EDT)
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Okay, now you say it doesnt matter when the bust of Narmer was made? Well, your wrong. It does matter that his bust was made during the 25th dynasty, which was 2300 years after Narmer had reigned. The egyptians of the 25th dynasty wouldnt have the slightest clue as to what the real Narmer looked like. There is only one, Ill repeat, only ONE other image of Narmer, and it is VERY clear for all that have eyes to see…that he looks nothing like what the bust made from the 25th dynasty portrays him to be. The only image of Narmer from Narmers TIME of reign, depicts the closest to what he really looked like…and if you ever get a chance to see it..he CLEARLY had no negroid traits that you would like to make him to have. THE INSCRIPTION OF UNI: Well, it seems awefully funny that all of a sudden Breadsted was a “racist egyptologist”, and all of his other discoveries were valued in this site, yet all of a sudden he misinterpreted things, and is racist… Breadsted was (he is no longer living) the PROFESSOR OF EGYPTOLOGY AND ORIENTAL STUDIES @THE UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO. I dont know if it was you or one of your people, but one of you linked that website from this page to post facts from, yet when I brought to your attention the insc. uni, all of a sudden it was a mistake and racist.. Its funny how its not racist when you use the SAME EXACT SITE, yet when I posted it for information…suddenly it was from a racist site, and racist egyptologist. You and your people have not only contridicted yourselfs, but you have also made hypocritical statements and accusations. So, if you think Im lying…SCROLL down this page and re-read very carefully…you will see, Im probably the most HONEST one here. To turner: I will not even answer you again…except to let you know…you havent “hurt” my feelings..and if you keep all of that anger inside of you, you will never be a true happy person, at peace with yourself. In regards to the slavery thing..I posted back FACTS in regards to slavery…after someone here threw it up in my face. White-aryan people have done more to help and benefit your people than this so called slavery could ever touch. So, in the future, attacking me with slavery, savage devil, etc etc…is only acting inmature, and taking many from this board off of the true topic here..the race of the ancient egyptians. Again…you may have posted back..but you posted with accusations and opinions…like for example the bust of narmer…you didnt answer me back with FACTS..your quote opinion was “it doesnt matter” Next time post back with fatcs..and intelligence, not hypocritical statements. In truth, Sherry
sherry
USA – Monday, October 18, 1999 at 23:09:11 (EDT)
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Of course ancient Egyptians were Black, this is really an indisputable fact. So let’s move on to another more important topic. Who are the real Jews? In the article that prefaced my comment it was stated that Ham is the father of the Black races. First of all it is impossible to categorize people by skin color. If I have a dog and a cat that are both black does that make them the same species? Of course not. So are all dark skinned people the same just because of their skin color. The answer is no. But this is the racist propaganda that we have been taught. The bible clearly states in several places that the Jews are black. Job states that he is black. So does Solomon. Revelations 1 gives a description of Christ as having skin the color of brass and hair like wool. The bible also says that all of Isreal (the name given to Jacob the son of Abraham)is reckoned by geneology, meaning that you can not convert to being a Jew. It is determined by birth. Deut. 28:68 also states that the Jews would be taken on ships and sold into slavery. This was prophesized after the first captivity in Egypt(A greek name meaning bondage. The original name of Egypt is Mizarim after one of the sons of Ham). Have the white people calling themselves Jews ever been taken into bondage on ships? Or why isn’t their skin dark like the Bible says it is and will always be? The true Jews don’t even know who they are because they have been told that they are Black or African American, or Indians or Mexican or any other name given to people of so-called Negroid or Indian descent. In a book titled From Babylon to Timbuktu the arthur Ruldolph Windsor recounts how the Jews fled into Africa in 70AD to hid among other dark skinned people when the Romans invaded Isreal. They lived there as refugees for about 1200 years before being sold into slavery during the triangular slave trade. The three parties who took part in the trade were the Arabs, the white man, and the Africans. Black people are not of African descent. Africans are descendents of Ham. Black people are descendents of Shem. I know this may sound crazy, but it’s true and it explains the condition of the real Jews today. I encourage everyone to do their research and find out who they really are. The truth of who the true Jews are is the one truth upon which all the lies that control the world are built. Shalom!
Sarai Yahawa
los angeles, ca USA – Monday, October 18, 1999 at 22:40:47 (EDT)
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from carnaval.com
BLACK IS BEAUTIFUL! 
